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* Amanda Vinicky at WTTW had the best story about the Texas school shooting as it relates to Illinois and the national level that I’ve seen so far this week. Have a look…
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 10:34 am
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Absolutely worth a look.
Really solid piece of reporting.
Comment by Back to the Future Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 10:48 am
I know all the focus is on tougher gun laws, but I think we also need to get a handle on mental illness among our youth and adolescent population. I think every school needs to have appropriate staff that is trained to assess mental health issues and provide counseling services to those that are at risk. Mental illness is rampant in our country. According to Mental Health America, an advocacy organization dedicating to addressing mental illness in our country, nearly 20% of adults experienced mental illness and that was in 2019 before the pandemic.
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 10:50 am
There was a “good guy with a gun” on the scene at Uvalde and that didn’t stop this preventable tragedy. The police were there almost immediately and waited outside while the killer kept shooting. It wasn’t until the Border Patrol tactical unit arrived and asked the school for a key to the classroom door, nearly an hour after this rampage started, that the local police, aka, “good guys with guns” were able to end the carnage.
60% of the guns recovered by Chicago Police were purchased outside of Illinois. As bad as the gun violence is in Chicago, it is far different than what happened in Texas, or Buffalo, or Newtown. Gun violence is the leading cause of death among children.
Do any of these facts matter?
Enough already. The federal government needs to act.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 10:50 am
===Mental illness is rampant in our country===
Mental illness does not equate to violence. Careful with that.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 10:52 am
.the federal govt needs to act. What do you propose.
Comment by Blue Dog Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 10:53 am
Mandatory background checks on all firearms sales/trades/transfer. Three day waiting period. Limits on capacity. Ban on sale of body armor to the general public. Mandatory firearm liability insurance.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 10:59 am
Ugh, more armed security guards, good guys with guns, reminds me of and oldie that feels like this is what the USA is like now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyMsZsL9Umo
Comment by Amalia Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 11:07 am
Stop with the “mentally ill” thing already. I have mentally ill people in my family. They’re not shooting up schools.
Comment by Soccermom Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 11:11 am
==.the federal govt needs to act. What do you propose.==
I would add a ban on assault rifles.
Comment by Steve Polite Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 11:16 am
I have cried a few times this week- but it is finding out that armed police were on the scene for 40 minutes, while children were dying- and did nothing- that has me howling with impotent rage.
Comment by West Sider Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 11:18 am
==What do you propose.==
To paraphrase James Carville, “It’s the guns, s*****(exclamation point)” Elon Musk (who’s a far cry from liberal) says assault rifles should require a special permit.
Comment by Jocko Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 11:18 am
Why does it alway have to be the fight between common sense gun laws or increased mental health personnel and education? Why not both? Talk about kicking the can down the road on something. This is life and death. Nothing gets done. Just more thoughts and prayers.
Comment by Club J Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 11:19 am
The Texas school shooter was not on anyone’s radar regarding mental illness. Sure, he was a bullied loner. That describes thousands of teenagers. he was not in any database. There were red flags that were ignored. He WAS allowed to legally buy assault rifles and high-capacity magazines at age 18. No background check (which would have fetched up nothing anyway). At 18, he cannot legally buy cigarettes, alcohol, or rent a car. It’s the guns!
Comment by Terry Salad Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 11:25 am
The most enraging thing to me isn’t that these gun-lovers on the Republican side won’t consider passing any of these common sense laws that the majority of Americans support, but it’s that they are constantly proposing and passing laws like eliminating permitting, licensing, and training for firearms that are statistically contributing to making things worse.
Comment by Blue to the Bone Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 11:35 am
Mental illness is rampant in our country…
Mental illness does not equate to violence. Careful with that….But it does strongly suggest someone other than or in addition to armed officers might be appropriate.
That might be a discussion for a whole another day. However when reporting says the gunman cut himself and told others there is a bit of information that put some flags in the air.
We know there are too many guns, We know the weapons of war have no place in civil society. We all know a “well regulated militia” does not require every mope in the nation needs or should be able to buy a weapon of war.
Comment by Annonin' Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 11:40 am
=Mental illness is rampant in our country.=
Mental illness exists in Europe as well. They don’t have school shootings. Why is that?
Comment by Pundent Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 11:48 am
Republicans have told us there is nothing that can be done and the debate is pointless. And guess what? They’re right - until they change their minds and decide that sacrificing children at the alter of the 2nd Amendment is maybe not real freedom
Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 11:50 am
Idolatry is a sin and Republicans do it in spades - Trump, the 2nd Amendment, you name it. They worship these idols in spite of the Lord, not in celebration of Him
Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 11:52 am
=I think every school needs to have appropriate staff that is trained to assess mental health issues and provide counseling services to those that are at risk.=
This along with the newer threat assessment team requirements only highlights how poorly people understand schools and their purpose.
Schools are not hospitals or mental health facilities or law enforcement organizations.
Illinois has, for the last two decades, imposed more and more responsibility on schools for these issues while, at the same time, removing many of the tools we had to address them. And failing to develop a pipeline for personnel to fill these jobs.
Last year, we posted a counselor vacancy. We contacted everyone in the “pool” (through our online system and received exactly zero applicants. Even when we try we cannot find people.
This needs to be a concerted and organized effort that does not rely on people trained to teach reading and writing to provide medical level assessment and military level security.
And when a shooting starts, the police need to take action to end the shooting. Otherwise, all of their gear are just costumes.
Comment by JS Mill Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 11:58 am
Any teacher who is alive and breathing can identify kids with “issues” and refer them to the proper people for evaluation. Even is those people are concerned, there is that little thing that you can’t stigmatize anyone (especially children!) and if they haven’t done anything there’s nothing to be done. Counselors can work with parents—–who spend far more time with their family members than any school employee—-but often to no avail. You cannot believe how many parents are not only indifferent to “help” but downright hostile to it. It’s heartbreaking to try to help a child only to have a parent tell you that you’re overstepping or discriminating against them. Go figure.
This is a people problem.
Comment by Anon Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 11:59 am
=the federal govt needs to act. What do you propose.=
You can find your way Google on your own for any number of ideas on how we can combat this problem. It starts by recognizing that there is a role that the government can play here and one that’s been abdicated.
The pervasiveness of gun violence and mass shootings is a problem unique to the U.S. Maybe the proposal starts with asking why?
Comment by Pundent Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 12:00 pm
Lengthy, old, and largely ignored.
But worth it when time allows.
“The active shooter,” says Andre Simons, “tends more often than not to be motivated by a deeply personal grievance tinged with feelings of persecution and humiliation, real and perceived, whereas terrorists are oftentimes going to be motivated by more ideological reasons.”
Simons is the answer to the question who is trying to stop “the next one”—the next active shooter, the next act of targeted violence, the next mass killing. Within the FBI’s Critical Incident Response
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30024/mass-shooters-1014/
Comment by Glenn Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 12:11 pm
There was some very frank discussion on Amanpour & Co. last night. You can access the transcript at this link, and if you have PBS Passport, the entire segment. https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/may-25-2022-bgodjy/
Comment by Anon221 Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 12:29 pm
===This is a people problem.===
It’s a problem of stupidly easy access to powerful firearms.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 12:38 pm
=== Stop with the “mentally ill” thing already. I have mentally ill people in my family. They’re not shooting up schools. ===
=== Mental illness exists in Europe as well. They don’t have school shootings. Why is that? ===
I didn’t say that we shouldn’t focus any time on our gun laws. I just said that we also need to address people’s mental health. I am not surprised that you have people with mental health issues in your family because as I noted in my previous comment, about 1 in 5 adults struggle with their mental health.
Everyone is focused on the issue of guns. I just was throwing out there that there are also other ways that we can attempt to address this type of violence. And while not everyone with mental illness is shooting up schools, people shooting up schools usually have some form of mental illness. And shootings aside, our youth is suffering from mental illness at an alarming rate. Having the staff in place to help students dealing with these issues should be something that all people can get behind.
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 12:42 pm
==This is a people problem.==
What would the death total be if he used a bat, knife, revolver, or shotgun? I guarantee it would be less than 21.
Comment by Jocko Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 12:43 pm
=== The Texas school shooter was not on anyone’s radar regarding mental illness. ===
Maybe he would have been if there was appropriate staff in schools dedicated to identifying these issues.
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 12:45 pm
-No background check-
utter nonsense if it was purchased from a retailer or licensed dealer, a federal background check is required, without exception.
Comment by Blue Dog Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 12:57 pm
=I just said that we also need to address people’s mental health.=
Which is simply a means of deflection. While we are not the only country impacted by mental illness, we are alone when it comes to school shooting and other gun related mass casualties.
Comment by Pundent Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 12:58 pm
=== Which is simply a means of deflection. ===
You are being ridiculous. There are no simple solutions to complex problems. We can address guns and mental illness at the same time can’t we? Or do you think that mental illness isn’t something that we should worry about? These attacks are really telling.
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 1:08 pm
Even apart from the fact that most mentall ill people are not shooting up schools, they are, by definition, suffering. Many times without professional help. I remember when Kansas accidentally passed a law allow people to abandon their children without consequence. People came from different states to drop off their mentally ill children. Not because they were defective or not loved but because the families were out of ideas, weren’t getting help, were exhausted.
Also if bullying is a problem, why not allow remote schooling for the targets? Or transfer them to another school if that’s a possibility. You can argue that doesn’t fix the problem of the bulliers and that would be correct, but if we can’t do that at least help the victims.
Comment by cermak_rda Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 1:20 pm
=There are no simple solutions to complex problems.=
And yet, while you continue to deflect, you’ve yet to acknowledge why this problem is unique to the United States. There’s clearly something that sets us apart and it isn’t mental illness. The answer can’t be that simple. Or is it? And maybe there’s a reason why the Senate GOP doesn’t even want to have a conversation on the topic. Because the problem isn’t that simple. Or is it?
Comment by Pundent Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 1:34 pm
These are the easy first steps — “Limits on capacity. Ban on sale of body armor to the general public.” Add background checks and ban private sales and we’ll have made a good dent without violating any reasonable interpretation of 2A.
Here is a quick way to fact check the magazine limits - have you ever heard anybody complain about the fact that duck-hunting semi-auto shotguns are capacity limited to 3 shells almost everywhere, including in Texas? Almost certainly you have not. This shows that it is not the limit but the macho BS posturing that too many have about guns…
Comment by WestBurbs Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 1:40 pm
If this person used a knife or other weapon and killed fewer people, would that be ok? Would the offender have less of a disturbed mind using a different weapon? The issue of gun access and type of guns is definitely a problem. But most people aren’t thinking about using a gun or any other weapon to kill a mass number of people. Are they?
Comment by Anon Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 1:43 pm
I like to be careful about saying “this problem is unique to the United States.” Other countries have mass shooter incidents — we are unique only in that (i) we have so many, (ii) we don’t do anything about it, and (iii) we have a Constitutional right (of debatable breadth)to bear arms. This last point is the stickiest and makes it imperative that responsible gun arguments don’t overstate or we’ll never win.
Comment by WestBurbs Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 1:44 pm
===utter nonsense if it was purchased from a retailer or licensed dealer, a federal background check is required, without exception.===
And if it was purchased in a private party sale in Indiana? Please stop Blue. Feelings are pretty raw still. I have a 4th grader. Stop with your incessant trolling and lies, for just a few more days. I don’t want Rich to ban me for life, but I’ve long since run out of polite responses to your BS.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 1:47 pm
WestBurbs, you are right that other countries have mass shooter incidents. I still remember hearing about the Norwegian shooter that killed 50+. But they happen a lot less often.
The 2nd amendment, to me, just indicates that we are a bad society full of bad people (corona also pointed that out) and we’re just stuck trying to survive it.
Comment by cermak_rd Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 2:21 pm
cermak-rd — totally agree that we are far different from other countries in this horrible respect — my point was that it is incorrect to suggest it never happens elsewhere (and counterproductive b/c the pro-gun forces latch onto any inaccuracy to deflect). As for the 2A,I have mixed feelings — ultimately I’d be happy to amend the Constitution to get rid of it but that is unrealistic so we have to find ways to deal with it as we try to make the country a safer place….
Comment by WestBurbs Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 2:31 pm
Totally agree with 47th Ward re blue dog. This is not the time to spout pro-gun shibboleths. Either contribute to reasonable discussions - and acknowledge the problem - or get out of the way. Neither Abbot-types nor Beto-types are going to make any progress so its up to those who can debate reasonably to do something
Comment by WestBurbs Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 2:35 pm
=== And yet, while you continue to deflect, you’ve yet to acknowledge why this problem is unique to the United States. ===
You aren’t listening.
I am not deflecting anything. From my point of view, there is nothing for me to deflect from. All I’ve said is that everyone is focused solely on guns. I have acknowledged that things can be done regarding guns, but there should also be something done about mental health.
Your obsession is clouding your ability to understand and that is not helpful. Stop it.
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 2:48 pm
The manufacturer of the gun used at Robb Elementary offered “thoughts and prayers”, withdrew from the NRA convention at Houston this week, and still offers the gun for sale on their website according to this Daily Beast report- https://www.thedailybeast.com/daniel-defensethe-maker-of-the-uvalde-shooters-perfect-rifleabruptly-exits-the-nra-convention
Comment by Anon221 Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 2:55 pm
=All I’ve said is that everyone is focused solely on guns.=
Probably because the GOP refuses to even talk about it and deflects (usually to mental health) every time the topic comes up. But I would agree that their track record on addressing mental health is not exactly stellar either. You want to pivot to well worn talking points and then deny that you’re doing so. Ok.
Comment by Pundent Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 3:12 pm
If the problem were solely limited to “mental health” as those on the right are desperately trying to argue, then wouldn’t their obvious solution be to do everything humanly possible to prevent anyone who potentially suffers from mental health issues from ever obtaining a gun?
Comment by Dance Band on the Titanic Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 3:54 pm
“people shooting up schools usually have some form of mental illness”
Citation needed.
– MrJM
Comment by MisterJayEm Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 4:08 pm
The people who cry for more gun control have obviously not studied the issue objectively. If he hadn’t been bullied, if he had a better family environment, if there had been more armed individuals in the school, if the school had more secure doors, etc…
By blaming guns, you’re spraying the smoke. Dig deeper to find the root causes and try to address them. Anything else is foolish and a waste.
Comment by logic not emotion Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 4:28 pm
If he hadn’t bought two AR-15s right after his 18th birthday a few weeks ago…
Sorry dude, but you lack both logic and emotion.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 4:38 pm
How about we compromise: more gun control, more mental health services, and hey, if you want more guards in schools as a condition to the other items, fine. Can schools be too safe?
Comment by lake county democrat Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 4:41 pm
=== How about we compromise: more gun control, more mental health services, and hey, if you want more guards in schools as a condition to the other items, fine. Can schools be too safe? ===
Now that’s what I’m talking about. We can do multiple things to make schools safer. There is not simple way to make this happen. It has to be a multi-faceted approach.
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 4:50 pm
lakecountydem nails it. This isn’t a binary choice, we can do gun control AND mental health. And for those of you saying no to additional gun controls —- why? I get you think it won’t prevent tragedies but why not try? Seriously, what is the downside? Anything other than the paranoid’s slippery slope that ends when “we” take all “your” guns?
Comment by WestBurbs Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 4:50 pm
=Dig deeper to find the root causes and try to address them. =
Why don’t Europe and Asia see shootings like this? Do they not have the same societal issues that we do? What makes them “different”? Maybe it’s not as deep as you think.
Comment by Pundent Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 4:53 pm
Canada has about the same rate of gun ownership and almost none of our gun violence.
For the record, I wish we’d treat mental illness like any other healthcare condition and cover it on every insurance policy so we wouldn’t have to wait for a crisis to discover someone needs help. But forgive me for pointing out that Republicans at all levels of government consternation vote against providing any healthcare, to anyone, and tell me again why I should expect Republicans to step up and support improving access to mental health coverage on a scale that matches the enormous problem we have I. This country.
I’ll hang up and listen to your answers.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 5:00 pm
Canada does not have a winner takes all economy where life’s winners, e.g. the smartest, the hardest working, the most virtuous etc. take 99% of the profits of society and leave the 80% of the people left to fight over that left over 1%. Our society sets up a competition for bare survival.
Comment by cermak_rd Thursday, May 26, 22 @ 5:33 pm
someone hijacked my handle at 12:57.
Comment by Blue Dog Friday, May 27, 22 @ 3:34 am
=== Mental illness does not equate to violence. Careful with that.===
People who suffer mental illnesses are 11 times more likely to be a victim of crime. Helping people with mental illnesses reduces crime because they are less likely to be victims.
https://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/pn.40.17.00400016
Comment by Da big bad wolf Friday, May 27, 22 @ 5:50 am