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* This is how gun control debates are usually covered in the news media…
In the ongoing debate around proposed gun control legislation at the Illinois statehouse, advocacy groups on both sides are working to advance their positions.
Several Illinois state representatives on the working group that crafted the proposed prohibition of certain semi-automatic firearms and magazines in House Bill 5855 were on the advocacy side of the gun control debate before becoming lawmakers, like state Rep. Maura Hirschauer. […]
On the other side, there are several groups promoting the rights of gun owners, including Guns Save Life, Federal Firearms Licensees of Illinois representing gun stores and the Illinois State Rifle Association.
The hard reality is that the Democrats’ huge super-majorities mean the pro-gun folks have precious few allies. They likely can’t stop a bill on their own.
* To the bill…
Among other things, HB5855 would make it illegal to manufacture, sell or purchase an assault-style weapon, assault weapon attachment, .50-caliber rifle, or .50-caliber cartridge. And starting 300 days after the bill takes effect, it would make it illegal to possess such a weapon or ammunition unless it is registered with the Illinois State Police.
Large capacity ammunition feeding devices also would be prohibited under the bill.
The bill would also repeal a provision of current law that allows people between the ages of 18 and 21 to obtain a Firearm Owners Identification Card with parental consent, unless the applicant is a member of the U.S. armed forces or the Illinois National Guard.
And who would most likely be arrested? Black and Brown youth, say social justice advocates.
* So, this is the coming legislative reality in Illinois…
The bill sponsor just claimed that the bill would not have a direct fiscal impact.
By my calculation, if passed as filed, it would be Illinois' most massive increase in criminal penalties in two decades.
— Stephanie Kollmann (@SLKollmann) December 15, 2022
When you ask for data and get anecdotes, it's a sign.
Banning trans fats is saving lives.
Criminalizing individual possession of Oreos manufactured with them was not the path.
— Stephanie Kollmann (@SLKollmann) December 15, 2022
Kollman is the policy director for the Children and Family Justice Center, but I have talked to others like her who have expressed the same sentiments.
* A similar argument was used against this Chicago proposal, which ultimately passed…
Finite City legal resources would be better focused on supply-side solutions that reduce access to & value of guns. Instead, this proposal would divert City Law Dept time into admin law hearings seeking fines from ppl who likely will not be able to pay. https://t.co/BZ4mp82I7a
— Loevy & Loevy (@LoevyAndLoevy) December 14, 2022
…and court judgments ordering payments or garnishing future wages would burden the poorest families in our city. These fines not only prevent the accused person from reintegrating into society, but impact their families who rely on them for support.
— Loevy & Loevy (@LoevyAndLoevy) December 14, 2022
These are the same groups who are fresh off their SAFE-T Act victory. They would view the legislation as a setback.
Anyway, it’s something to be aware of as we move forward. And it’s likely the bill’s proponents included an oversampling of Black and Brown voters in their recent poll to help buttress their case against just this sort of argument.
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 12:38 pm
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
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These objections are very similar to the reasons why Sharone Mitchell and a number of other progressive public defenders and justice advocates filed briefs against New York in gun case that SCOTUS decided earlier this year. Obviously, this doesn’t necessarily have a bearing on this particular bill, but I’d advise those interested to check out Mitchell’s interview with the NYT.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/23/opinion/sharone-mitchell-jr-and-the-progressive-case-against-gun-permits.html
Comment by Google Is Your Friend Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 1:02 pm
I agreed with them on the SAFE-T Act, but disagree with them here. I suspect the community that is greatly suffering from the scourge of gun violence would also disagree with them.
Comment by Norseman Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 1:07 pm
Too bad that the ISRA can’t get even 1% of FOID holders to join.
Too bad that the ISRA cannot reach or comprehend the other 99%.
Comment by We've never had one before Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 1:21 pm
The .50 caliber sniper rifles should be banned. They are so powerful that 9/11 type terrorists could knock out power by shooting sub-stations.
Comment by DuPage Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 1:38 pm
The bigger question….would this get past the Supreme Court?
Comment by Jerry Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 1:41 pm
With respect to gun laws, the way to avoid a disparate impact on black/brown youth is to provide time/direction/assistance to permit compliance with the law (new or existing). For example, advertise the mag capacity limit and provide a mag exchange (swap your 30 rounder for a 10 round). While I rarely agree with Ald. Napolitano, he laid it out right with respect to his UUW fine/detention ordinance — “Get an FOID card and get a concealed carry card. And then, you can carry a gun like everybody else,” he said.”
Comment by WestBurbs Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 1:43 pm
The Glock model 19 is one of the most popular handguns in circulation. If you possess the firearm and one extra magazine, you become a felon the instant Governor Pritzker signs the bill because the standard issue magazine for that firearm is 15 rounds.
In 2018, Glock became the official handgun of the National African American Gun Association, signifying it’s popularity amongst minority firearms owners. Social justice advocates should be paying attention to the potential risks of this bill.
Comment by SKI Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 1:55 pm
Am I correct in my interpretation that because of the FOID provisions, no one under the age of 21 would be able to hunt without a parent? That should do wonders for the future of hunting and wildlife management in the state. Way to alienate the center.
Comment by MountainDog Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 2:06 pm
==They would view the legislation as a setback.==
Would they view any legislation that involves criminal entities a “setback?” You can’t just eliminate criminal penalties because they think it might have a negative impact. That plays right into the “soft on crime” narrative.
Comment by Demoralized Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 2:15 pm
I watched the Judiciary - Criminal Committee hearing today - for sure this is not a vetting of facts or seeking input - the Dem advocates for 5855 control the debate, the order of the speakers, and in my opinion have their minds 100 made up. Also, Rep La Shawn Ford pressured a witness against the bill with gotta type questions. Leader McCombie had few if any questions for the witness for the legislation - she let them speak and then addressed the topic at large.
Comment by Donnie Elgin Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 2:29 pm
Kollman is just plain wrong here and trying to put “trans fat” in the same context is a harsh, inappropriate insult to those with lived experiences with gun violence.
Comment by Shytown Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 2:52 pm
possessing Oreos should be a criminal event.
Comment by Blue Dog Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 2:57 pm
What does 9/11 type terrorists mean? 9/11 used planes, not guns.
“… so powerful that 9/11 type terrorists could knock out power by shooting sub-stations.”
Comment by Lurker Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 2:58 pm
@- Jerry - Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 1:41 pm:
===The bigger question…. would this get past the Supreme Court===
They Supreme Court allowed some restrictions. For example, machine guns, bazooka-type rocket launchers, hand grenades, and other big weapons are all restricted already.
Comment by DuPage Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 3:14 pm
@Norseman
I suspect the community dealing most with gun violence is also dealing most with excessive incarceration. Furthermore there might be a connection between the two…
If we as a state are serious about fighting mass incarceration then it’s not just about minor offenses. It’s also about tacking on extra penalties to things that are already illegal. Studies show penalty enhancements don’t decrease crime anyways.
Surely there’s a way to pass a bill very similar to HB 5855 that doesn’t contribute to mass incarceration.
Comment by JJJJJJJJJJ Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 3:21 pm
This is a horrible analogy. Eating Oreos everyday (directly) harms no one but the person choosing to do that, setting aside broader public health concerns.
Cracking down on illegal possession of guns is proven to be one of the best preventative measures to address gun violence.
Comment by FormerBloomingtonResident Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 3:22 pm
The fact that you have 300 days after this bill becomes a law to register an AR-15 so you can keep it, but would be committing a felony the day the bill is signed if you own a handgun that comes with two standard sized magazines just feels insane.
Comment by Illiana Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 3:23 pm
===Cracking down on===
And with that, you’ve just confirmed their fears.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 3:30 pm
===What does 9/11 type terrorists mean? 9/11 used planes, not guns.
“… so powerful that 9/11 type terrorists could knock out power by shooting sub-stations.”===
Not even sure they are any kind of terrorists just yet. Could just be some mountain folk mad at Duke Energy.
Comment by Proud Sucker Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 3:49 pm
Can’t have it both ways…pick a lane. Can’t pick and chose who we apply the law to.
Comment by Rent free Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 4:30 pm
follow the law. follow the law. follow the law. don’t want to be arrested, follow the law. you could also argue that there are more victims who are Black and Brown, but you aren’t doing that are you, complainers? Please approach this from a victim perspective and stop what seems like a pro criminal approach.
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 4:31 pm
@Amalia
Do you think someone who is released from a jail sentence is more or less likely to committ violent crime after being released?
The data may surprise you.
Comment by JJJJJJJJJJ Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 4:37 pm
DuPage.
I just ordered my .499 better try again
Comment by Todd Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 4:54 pm
@JJJJJJJJJJ someone released from a jail sentence more or less likely to commit violent crime? so by that logic, let’s not incarcerate anyone cause they might do something again? too many who commit crime have been given chance after chance their whole life. keep them away from the public.
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 5:37 pm
== Cracking down on illegal possession of guns is proven to be one of the best preventative measures to address gun violence.==
That’s a bold statement. Would you mind sharing the proof of “crackdowns” on gun possession violations having succeeded at reducing violence?
Comment by charles in charge Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 5:59 pm
The Glock 17 holds 17 rounds in each magazine and comes that way from the factory. Any person who legally owns one would have to register it with the state police or they would be breaking the law. It’s the larger version of the Glock 19.
How is it fair to make lawbreakers out of law abiding citizens simply because they own a type of gun?
Comment by Fivegreenleaves Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 9:23 pm
Thank you all for your comments, and Rich for platforming discussion of the criminal provisions.
Given the importance of this topic, the attention given to it, and the knowledgeability of the commenters here, the lack of appetite for arresting, felonizing, jailing, and imprisoning an untold number of Illinoisans for possessing millions of items of currently-legal future contraband is notable to me.
Comment by Stephanie Kollmann Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 9:37 pm
re the appetite for arresting, the City of Chicago just passed an ordinance to create City penalties…..money and jail….for the illegal possession of guns. there are specifics for assault weapons. So, the police in Chicago may be taking some ordinance action.
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Dec 15, 22 @ 10:20 pm
So those illegally in possession of guns and that devalue the life of another are the main issue. Combine that with drug turf wars and street crime and you get 667 killings in Chicago alone so far in 2022. I’m guessing most of those shot were from illegally obtained weapons. I am not saying there are not exceptions, but as well all know the majority of shootings are occurring by street criminals. Address that issue at the local community level and much of this resolves itself.
Comment by NorthSideNoMore Friday, Dec 16, 22 @ 8:23 am