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* CBS 2…
A war zone. That’s how a state lawmaker describes a North Side neighborhood where bullets flew through a family’s window—narrowly missing a 7-year-old girl.
Morning Insider Tim McNicholas is searching for solutions to the violence in Albany Park.
Dario Agudo says his daughter was finishing homework Sunday night when a bullet missed her by inches. […]
[Rep. Jaime Andrade, (D-Chicago] pointed out that if no people are hit, Chicago police often classify shootings as “criminal damage to property” as they did Sunday.
He plans on introducing legislation to change that.
“This should be classified as damage to personal property by gunfire. There has to be a difference, because this gets lumped to just as if someone threw a rock through a window, and it can’t be,” he said.
Agudo’s daughter wound up taking an extra day off school.
“They didn’t rest enough,” Agudo said.
He’s just happy he’s dealing with broken glass—and not a broken heart.
Thoughts?
Also, keep in mind before you comment that no single idea should ever be considered a panacea. You may think other things should be done. That’s fine. I’m asking you what you think of this idea.
*** UPDATE *** An eagle-eyed reader noted that this is already a Class 1 felony…
(a) A person commits aggravated discharge of a firearm when he or she knowingly or intentionally:
(1) Discharges a firearm at or into a building he or she knows or reasonably should know to be occupied and the firearm is discharged from a place or position outside that building;
(2) Discharges a firearm in the direction of another person or in the direction of a vehicle he or she knows or reasonably should know to be occupied by a person; […]A violation of subsection (a)(1) or subsection (a)(2) of this Section is a Class 1 felony.
…Adding… Good point in comments…
Some commenters are confusing reporting and charging. In this type of situation, all you have is a bullet through a wall. No other evidence, no one in custody. You have no evidence to support an aggravated discharge (i.e. that the weapon was discharged “knowingly or intentionally”), aggravated assault (i.e. shooter was shooting at a person on the street but missed and the bullet went through the wall unintentionally), reckless discharge (i.e. recklessly endangers the bodily safety of an individual, such as by firing the gun on the public way), etc.
Andrade’s idea will allow these shooting incidents to be more accurately documented, allowing a more accurate picture of the crime and safety conditions of a given area.
…Adding… Seeing a lot of “but the state’s attorney!” in comments, so here are some numbers from today’s Sun-Times…
Meanwhile, arrests have fallen significantly.
Through December of last year, less than 12% of 203,530 reported crimes resulted in an arrest, according to city data analyzed by the Sun-Times. That’s way down from the numbers from 2019 that were presented during the meeting. That year, arrests were made in more than 21% of the 260,889 reported crimes.
Note also that reported crimes were down 22 percent from 2019.
posted by Rich Miller
Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 8:28 am
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It makes a lot of sense to classify shootings differently. I also think there should be repercussions for the emotional trauma caused by this, too. Sure, the bullet didn’t hit her. But the trauma of that situation certainly did.
Comment by Now I'm down in it. Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 8:35 am
I like what he is trying to do.
Comment by JS Mill Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 8:38 am
small useful change
Comment by halving_fun Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 8:39 am
An important part of solving a problem is a complete and accurate description of it. I am surprised to learn that incidents involving gunfire are not necessarily reported as such, so this strikes me as a good idea. I bet we would be shocked at the number of such “near misses” as described above.
Comment by Captain Obvious Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 8:40 am
I lived two blocks away (Central Park and Leland) from the intersection noted in this article with my wife and young child. We absolutely loved Albany Park and planned to stay there forever. Unfortunately, there was one building on our block that was notorious for drugs and violence. About once a week the entire block would call 9-1-1 for something with the building. We ended up selling and moving after a drive by occurred as I was getting out of my car one evening.
The reason I bring this up is because the police were 100% aware of the issues with this building, but could not do anything to control the issues which still continue to this day according to our former neighbors. This isn’t meant to bash cops, rather to point out how ineffective I think labeling these as gun crimes will be. Cops, alderman, and other city officials already know who and where the problems are, they just can’t do anything about it.
Comment by Former Albany Parker Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 8:40 am
If it clarifies what’s happening out there, it’s a good change, but calling what’s happening something more clear, without also changing the system that is allowing perpetrators to be released so quickly, and so many guns to get into the hands of these criminals, need to be changed too. Lets get to work on that. It needs doing.
Comment by PublicServant Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 8:42 am
I think this is a good idea. Too often, administrators, researchers, law enforcement, etc. believe it is best to place events in a box and the less number of boxes, the better. However, this method does not always work. For example, if the most dangerous intersection was rated on crashes alone, this data may not tell the whole story. If an intersection has 10 crashes, 2 injuries and no deaths, is that more dangerous than an intersection that has 3 crashes, 3 injuries and 2 deaths? You can’t treat every crash as equal just like you can’t treat every property damage as equal. This legislation creates a new box that would be useful to law enforcement in determining high crime areas. I applaud Rep. Andrade for his efforts in bringing this legislation forward.
Comment by Carbondale Chronicle Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 8:51 am
=== this is already a Class 1 felony…===
So maybe get the police to treat the shootings as this, rather than a simple “criminal damage to property” as they did Sunday.”
Always good to enforce the laws already on the books before writing new ones that will be ignored anyway.
Comment by Bruce( no not him) Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 9:03 am
I live in Albany Park. We’re looking to move out of here. Wife and I have no faith in leadership that things will change. We’ve called things in too many times and nothing seems to happen or change. We’re outta here.
Comment by Jose Abreu's Next Homer Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 9:04 am
Both treating incidents like this as an aggravated discharge of a firearm and perhaps clarifying legislation should be in order.
Would be curious how they end up charging people in these situations in Cook County.
Comment by OneMan Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 9:16 am
I am an alderman and a former prosecutor. In my experience, when a firearm is discharged and no one is injured, these incidents are often classified as “shots fired” incidents and data is tracked for these incidents. However, this is only the case when evidence supports that conclusion (i.e. bullet casings, bullet holes, or witness confirmation). Therefore, it seems as though this distinction already exists. While I encourage that intent behind the legislation, it is some what meaningless. Illinois has very strict gun laws, however, they are often not strictly enforced.
Comment by Eric Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 9:27 am
…deck chairs…Titanic
Comment by Brian Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 9:35 am
Also - there is reckless discharge of a firearm, a class 4 felony. Both aggravated and reckless discharge of a firearm would apply to the above offense. A new criminal offense is certainly unnecessary, especially if it is not classified as a felony.
*I initially thought this article was in relation to have the reports were tracked, data wise. Pardon my confusion.
Comment by Eric Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 9:36 am
-So maybe get the police to treat the shootings as this, rather than a simple “criminal damage to property” as they did Sunday-
Prosecutors make the charging decisions, not the police.
Comment by Ron Burgundy Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 9:43 am
The idea on it’s own merits? Seems fine. But then the people who actually pull the trigger need to be found, arrested and tried. Seems like that is the part that always lets you down.
Comment by Cool Papa Bell Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 9:46 am
I like Andrade’s idea. It will allow police and public to better track these types shootings where no one (thankfully) is injured and there is no other evidence.
Some commenters are confusing reporting and charging. In this type of situation, all you have is a bullet through a wall. No other evidence, no one in custody. You have no evidence to support an aggravated discharge (i.e. that the weapon was discharged “knowingly or intentionally”), aggravated assault (i.e. shooter was shooting at a person on the street but missed and the bullet went through the wall unintentionally), reckless discharge (i.e. recklessly endangers the bodily safety of an individual, such as by firing the gun on the public way), etc.
Andrade’s idea will allow these shooting incidents to be more accurately documented, allowing a more accurate picture of the crime and safety conditions of a given area.
Comment by Leslie K Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 9:47 am
Although, noting Eric’s second post–if Andrade is looking for case reporting changes, that doesn’t need to be done through state law. Although the case report at the time was apparently “criminal damage to property,” if someone was arrested, you would definitely want the highest charge possible–several of which already exist.
Comment by Leslie K Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 9:51 am
I understand the legislative impulse to show some progress against a societal ill, but what will this really accomplish? Will there really be a deterrent effect? Wiull the police devote more resources to catching the perpetrator? Will prosecutors be better able to punish the shooter if caught?
I’m a little skeptical of all these things, although I’d be willing to change my mind if a police office or prosecutor told me they genuinely thought it would make a difference.
Comment by Benjamin Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 9:54 am
The Legislature can write all the bills it wants, but that doesn’t mean anything if prosecution is lacking. And thanks to liberal prosecution policies in Cook County, well, another law being broken won’t matter.
Comment by thisjustinagain Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 10:07 am
when convicted, the shooter should then lose his FOID card for life.
Comment by Blue Dog Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 10:11 am
Andrade has a good idea. He’s doing his part to prevent a massive tradegy. What’s needed is a States Attorney’s Office and Cook County judges to put people behind bars if they are convicted of these sorts of crimes.
Comment by Steve Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 10:15 am
while there are questions of current law, arrest and prosecution of such matters and needing further laws, I like that a Democrat is paying attention to crime. this is a key issue for the next elections. and while it may not matter as much on the state rep level, it does matter for Congressional elections and in general. and with each Dem State’s Attorney/DA who seems to care more about so called mass incarceration than prosecuting crime, the issue becomes more key to handle well by Democrats. the new DA in NYC has just done huge damage with an astounding memo on how not to prosecute. Democrats need to care about victims.
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 10:23 am
I’d like to see Andrade run for Alderman in 33.
Comment by 47th Ward Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 10:25 am
It’s a good idea for the reporting reasons people mentioned.
But, many are confusing this as a crime prevention measure. Sentencing enhancements do not prevent crime! There’s no evidence that they do so. What would prevent crime is making it more likely that someone is caught for this. And that falls squarely on the police.
Comment by JJJJJJJJJJ Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 10:36 am
**The Legislature can write all the bills it wants, but that doesn’t mean anything if prosecution is lacking. And thanks to liberal prosecution policies in Cook County, well, another law being broken won’t matter.**
**What’s needed is a States Attorney’s Office and Cook County judges to put people behind bars if they are convicted of these sorts of crimes.**
Cool. Now can both of you tell me what % of these crimes are solved by CPD?
You can talk all you want about prosecutors and judges, but prosecutors and judges are seeing very few of these crimes, because CPD isn’t making arrests.
Comment by SaulGoodman Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 10:39 am
=== this is already a Class 1 felony…===
So maybe get the police to treat the shootings as this, rather than a simple “criminal damage to property” as they did Sunday.”
Always good to enforce the laws already on the books before writing new ones that will be ignored anyway.
I think they would treat it as such and CHARGE said individuals if there’s was an arrest??? Kinda hard to enact without a perp no?
Comment by Rent free Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 10:41 am
===because CPD isn’t making arrests. ===
Arrests plunge in 2021
Meanwhile, arrests have fallen significantly.
Through December of last year, less than 12% of 203,530 reported crimes resulted in an arrest, according to city data analyzed by the Sun-Times. That’s way down from the numbers from 2019 that were presented during the meeting. That year, arrests were made in more than 21% of the 260,889 reported crimes.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2022/1/5/22869450/police-cpd-lori-lightfoot-david-brown-arrest-increase-crime-quota-demotion-clearance-rate-murder
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 10:44 am
Also note that reported crimes were down 22 percent from 2019.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 10:46 am
don’t know where to find the deets on the clearance rate in Chicago….ie, how many cleared exceptionally and what the exceptions mean: dead potential defendant or cannot prosecute….but clearance rates have been falling across the country dramatically for several years. this is not just a recent “no faith in the police” issue.
Comment by Amalia Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 10:48 am
If they want to upgrade laws, they should start with possession of a firearm by felons. They should make the state penalty match the federal law for the same crime, which is multi-years in prison.
Comment by DuPage Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 10:48 am
Part of the problem is that the Police are not investigating or catching people. No one has confidence in the Police. I think they need to take a hard look at how they do their jobs.
Comment by Publius Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 10:48 am
A couple of months ago, two cars went through my alley shooting at each other. My partner and I hit the floor. Luckily, bullets did not hit our house, but they shattered our neighbor’s sliding glass door, and a car on the corner was shot up. No one was injured, just property damage and a LOT of frayed nerves. We have video of the cars. I called the police the police to see if they wanted the video—no takers. I would hope that Rep. Andrade’s bill would at least slightly motivate the police to want more evidence that could help identify the people wrecking havoc on our neighborhoods. But maybe I’m just looking for any glimmer of hope.
Comment by Bronzeville Dweller Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 11:02 am
==If they want to upgrade laws, they should start with possession of a firearm by felons. They should make the state penalty match the federal law for the same crime, which is multi-years in prison.==
What are you talking about? The current penalty for gun possession by a person with a felony record is a mandatory 2-10 years in IDOC (i.e., “multi-years in prison.”
Comment by charles in charge Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 1:25 pm
This is a do-nothing proposal to pass a law about something that’s already a crime with a serious penalty. Andrade is trying to show constituents he wants to do something about crime, and is succeeding at demonstrating that he has no real idea what to do.
Comment by charles in charge Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 1:29 pm
@Blue Dog - A bit presumptuous that you think the gun firing guns willy nilly took the time and expense to obtain a FOID card when he can illegally obtain guns from a local gang much cheaper and quicker. Similarly, a bit presumptuous that losing a FOID card would stop him obtaining a gun under the same circumstances.
Comment by Just Another Anon Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 1:42 pm
===This is a do-nothing proposal ===
Disagree. The CPD is keeping gunfire stats low with the way they classify these reports. That means alarm bells don’t go off with the bean counters who report to those who distribute resources.
Stats are everything in big cities. The CPD stats are skewed.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 1:45 pm
Just another. Old people snark.
Comment by Blue Dog Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 2:02 pm
If nothing else it makes it harder to hide what’s happening. That’s a thing of value we should try it.
Comment by Mason born Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 2:23 pm
The Chicago Crime Data Portal, https://data.cityofchicago.org/Public-Safety/Crimes-2001-to-Present/ijzp-q8t2/data, doesn’t have any data from the new year uploaded and I can’t seem to find anything on CPD’s CLEARmap. I think what Rep. Andrade is proposing sounds great and I always support legislation to improve data, particularly around reporting crime, but I think it would be very helpful to show folks where we can find these concrete examples of CPD misreporting or downgrading the seriousness of a crime to improve their stats.
Comment by Spagnost Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 2:34 pm
47thWard: Why should he take a step down?
Comment by walker Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 3:24 pm
We can not continue with this,” We can’t arrest our way out of this, This is not a deterrent to stop shooting” set of clauses we keep hearing. get the violent criminals off the streets for good, surely we all agree on that. I can only comment on all the officers that I encounter on my walks in the city, they pretty much look defeated, overwhelmed, Mismanaged. And I don’t necessarily blame MLL.
Comment by City remap Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 3:41 pm
=== We can’t arrest our way out of this===
Did you not read? Arrests are way down.
Comment by Rich Miller Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 3:49 pm
My post about clearances got moderated, so I will offer these two links with less discussion. For those who expressed interest where to find more info. Hope this is helpful. CPD produces annual reports, with some clearance info:
https://home.chicagopolice.org/statistics-data/statistical-reports/annual-reports/
The national repository for official crime and clearance info is the FBI. They set the definitions, rules for how to calculate, etc. which are described here:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/topic-pages/clearances
(I don’t think FBI has clearance rates for individual departments, however. It is aggregated in various ways, provided in tables.)
Comment by Leslie K Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 4:48 pm
Rich, the SA through the Felony Review Team has to approve felony charges before an arrest can be made, CPD doesn’t make the decision. See II.B
https://directives.crimeisdown.com/directives/data/a7a57be2-1293c433-cb612-93ce-9c013ae422006b3e.html?commit=4ef2bcf5c288f133093f88b989bcea5245cdb5f9
Comment by Annoyed Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 5:43 pm
===I think it would be very helpful to show folks where we can find these concrete examples of CPD misreporting or downgrading the seriousness of a crime to improve their stats.===
That’s not what is happening in this type of incident (bullets through walls with no other evidence). Of the currently available reporting categories (I-UCR codes), this type of incident ends up mixed in with incidents such as a baseball bat to a car windshield. There is currently no other place this type of incident could fall.
I’m not saying numbers games with crime reports do or don’t happen; I’m just saying that’s not the case in this situation.
Comment by Leslie K Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 6:19 pm