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* Lili Loofbourow at Slate…
HermanCainAward, one of the fastest-growing subreddits on Reddit.com, is exactly what it sounds like: an archive of those who have been hospitalized and/or killed by COVID and didn’t believe the disease could harm them. It is named after Republican Herman Cain, the onetime candidate for president who succumbed to COVID some weeks after attending a Trump rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, at which he was photographed maskless in the summer of 2020. Cain’s Twitter account would continue to downplay the virus even after his death.
The Herman Cain Award concept is simple and ugly. A single entry to the subreddit consists of anywhere between two and 16 screenshots of a social media profile (usually Facebook, with last names scrubbed out) belonging to someone who died after aggressively rejecting precautions that could have protected them and others. The idea is to track the individual’s journey from COVID theory, so to speak, to COVID practice: what a person posted or commented about masks or shots, or those who advocated for either before getting sick, and how they and their community narrated their disease once they were ill. As the forum has grown, entries have started following a fairly standard format: The first few screenshots typically feature the individual in question deploying a remarkably consistent set (there are 30 or so) of memes. Some vilify Dr. Anthony Fauci or champion the right to be unvaccinated. Others warn people they’re experimental rats or offer scripts that will properly punish wait staff for daring to inquire about vaccination status. Some deride masked liberals as “sheep” and the unvaccinated as proud free lions or refer to immigrants as vectors of disease or compare vaccination requirements to the Holocaust. Most of them treat the pandemic as a joke and frame ignoring it as brave or clever or both. The final few screenshots typically announce the disease, its progress, and the eventual death announcement, frequently followed by a GoFundMe for the family. If someone is merely hospitalized, the flair on that entry reads “Nominated.” When they die, it changes to “Awarded.”
It is cruel, a site for heartless and unrepentant schadenfreude. This is a place where deaths are celebrated, and it is not the only one. While endless ink has been spilled on the anger of Trump voters and Fox News viewers and QAnon adherents, there are other angers that haven’t been nearly as well explored. The exhaustion and fury doctors and nurses feel, for example, as they deal yet again with overwhelmed ICUs. Instead of being hailed as heroes, this time around they’re risking their lives to serve while walking through anti-vax protesters and being called murderers or worse by misled family members demanding or indeed suing for sick unvaccinated relatives on ventilators to be dosed with ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine or vitamin C. There is the anger of family members of those without COVID who are dying or sicker than they should be because treatment was delayed or denied to them at dozens of hospitals that had no beds available. There’s the frustration of parents trying to keep their children safe, the constant, destabilizing calculations and adaptations people are forced into when (for instance) the governor of Texas prohibits schools from taking safety measures and then two teachers at a single school die, forcing closures once again. There’s the run-of-the-mill anger of those weary of living under pandemic conditions and demoralized—in the most literal sense—by the selfishness of their compatriots.
Subscriptions to the HermanCainAward subreddit are increasing exponentially, from 2,000 subscribers on July 4 to 5,000 at the beginning of August to more than 100,000 on Sept. 1 to 243,000 Friday to 276,000 today. If that rate is any indication, rage is growing toward anti-vaxxers deliberately prolonging the pandemic out of an anti-social and deadly understanding of their rights. Now, it’s true that not everyone on the subreddit assents to its spiteful premise: One exhausted nurse wrote a long post about how much one of her anti-vax patients suffered, as an attempt at counterbalance. She acknowledged her own compassion fatigue but also urged readers to think harder about how we got to this sorry pass. Plenty of the discussions do orbit around that basic question. But most of the comments are angry. A collection of screenshots generally elicits a common sentiment: The person got their just desserts.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 2:05 am
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Something tells me Lili doesn’t have children under 12 or immunocompromised. Their ignorance is putting others at risk.
Quite simply, if you were told you have a 1 in 500 chance of dying TODAY, would you do something to prevent it?
Comment by Jocko Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 7:27 am
This article reinforces my belief that “social” media is largely something to avoid. On the one hand, you have people using it to spread ignorance about vaccines and the virus that is leading to people dying. On the other hand, you have groups using it to share schadenfreude about people paying the price for that ignorance. Most people would live happier and healthier lives if they found better things to do with their time.
Comment by Nick Nombre Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 7:50 am
It’s not all screenshots of memes and eventual GoFundMe appeals, there are stories like this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/pqm303/an_open_letter_to_my_patient/
I think a peak into what happens to you (and your family) on an ICU vent is a must read for anyone.
The best things we got (remdesivir, monoclonal antibodies) have to be used early on. If you’ve been on a vent for a month, Ivermectin won’t pull you back. NONE of the treatments are as easy on you as the vaccines.
Comment by Shark Sandwich Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 8:19 am
I don’t celebrate anyones’ death. I may quietly say to myself that someones’ suffering has ended - usually in connection with the illnesses that cause pain and suffering for years prior to death. I don’t rejoice at an anti-vaccine person getting Covid because of all the people that are affected - all the angers you list in your post.
I just wish that people would listen to the anti vaccine Covid patients that then beg You to learn from their mistake and to go get vaccinated. Not enough of their relatives, friends, acquaintances or strangers that hear their plea are honoring their deaths by respecting their wishes.
As to the Reddit site, I’m not on Reddit and I’m glad. Social media is helping push people towards heartless and cruel behaviors. It’s not just middle and high schoolers bullying their classmates at school anymore. It’s 24/7 and it’s half the adult population virtually bullying relatives, friends, acquaintances and complete strangers from behind a screen.
Comment by thoughts matter Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 8:20 am
Yeah, I’m with reddit for this one. This is no different than laughing about a Darwin Award winner pre-Covid.
Comment by AnonymousFool Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 8:45 am
I have been subscribed to it for four weeks or so and it has helped me understand the mindset of people who refuse to be vaccinated beyond being generally aware of people spreading anti-vax memes on social media.
I live in a county with sub 40% vaccination and while I generally understand how politicization of the vaccine is part of it, I still have been fairly mystified by the vaccine reluctance.
At this point the sample size is getting pretty large on there, and at a minimum, a majority of the people posted are people with evangelical beliefs who call on prayer warriors once they have become hospitalized. Everyone has their own beliefs on ontology, metaphysics, freewill, etc but I struggle to understand how a Christian would not see the vaccine as God’s answer to the pandemic.
My other bigger takeaway from having read so many of these is just how much worse hospitalization process leading up to death is compared to what I thought. Reading about how some people spend weeks slowly slipping away as fluid fills their lungs is a sad fact that I think some people need to fully understand how painful these deaths are. Also, there have been so many where people will be posting on their facebook how they are getting better and their oxygen levels are improving, only to die a few days later. The aggravation of seeing the pictures of family members talking about the doctors are killing their family because they won’t treat them with dewormer remains frustating.
Finally, a positive is the growing popularity of the subreddit had lead to more people getting vaccinated. Through it, I have come to understand how many people just have not gotten around to it because they didn’t think they needed it as opposed to being staunchly against it.
Comment by all luck Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 8:57 am
good article, but the author doesn’t examine one aspect of what may lead people to participate in such a “vicious” reddit thread. All of us who a pro-mask and pro-vaccine are being traumatized by being forced to watch a ritual of mass human sacrifice. What we are witnessing–people submitting themselves and their own children to death by the tens of thousands–isn’t unusual or abnormal, it’s insane.
Comment by pc Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:07 am
=== This article reinforces my belief that “social” media is largely something to avoid. ===
Social Media is not something that is good or bad. It just provides a platform for people to generally share what they like. What you see on social media is a reflection of our society as a whole.
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:10 am
Lets see, for the past 18 months I’ve watched…
My county public health and safety committee have an anti masker and antivaxxer running an organization downplaying and politicizing a pandemic.
My county health director trying to blame diseased immigrants for the pandemic.
Schools having to take over the health responsibilities of health departments willingly failing to enforce public health.
And that’s just in Illinois. Imagine what being in Florida is like.
Which position of leadership is this subreddit in again. None. Documenting the failures of our countries public health corruption isn’t the fault of the messenger. It’s the signpost that there is still a severe problem that is not being addressed, and it will continue until it is.
It’s very simple why it has grown so rapidly.
People get to see the laws of man corrupted on a regular basis. It’s soothing to see the laws of nature are un corruptible on such a massive scale. Cast aspersions all you like, but the messenger didn’t create this situation and attempting to point blame there is just a continuation of the same societal failures that caused it to exist in the first place.
Comment by TheInvisibleMan Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:12 am
I did read it all- unbelievably heartbreaking.
Comment by West Sider Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:12 am
“To the living we owe respect, but to the dead we owe only the truth.” -Voltaire
A huge underpinning of the left right divide is that those on the left are expected to be empathetic and care for their fellow man, while those on the right not only aren’t, but in fact actively engage in behaviors either recklessly or intentionally causing physical or emotional harm to others.
After 650k dead Americans, I’m tired of caring about the opinions of the selfish conspiracy theorists. They’ve made it abundantly clear where they stand, and I just can’t be bothered to coddle them any more.
Comment by Homebody Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:16 am
Part of the issue is people just don’t think it will happen to them. Then they think if it does it will just be like a cold nothing big. Why wear a mask or quarantine if you are just going to get a cough. However this sub-redit shows that you can get really sick really fast. Just look at what happened in Taylorville. Maybe if this was talked about people would take it more seriously. This sub-redit may be a bit over the top but so are all the people not taking it seriously.
Comment by Publius Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:16 am
Anyone who is surprised by anything posted on reddit, hasn’t spent any time reading reddit.
Comment by Bruce( no not him) Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:18 am
=== It just provides a platform for people to generally share what they like. What you see on social media is a reflection of our society as a whole.===
Now do troll bots, Russian troll farms, and fake followers.
Social media is not a reflection of society.
Social media is an overall platform designed to allow small groups of widely thought beliefs an alleged measuring stick to the popularity of the ridiculousness.
To the post,
I am like millions of people. Millions. I have lost family and friends to this virus, some even held the beliefs of cult-like thinking.
Not one time, be it those I knew, or those I never knew, even Herman Cain… did I feel this need of superiority, a need to mock or disparage deaths… or make my only belief be “karma”.
These deaths leave people, like me, behind. There are holes left. I get just as angry and frustrated with the cheering, and it’s cheering, the “I told you so” unneeded anger.
Social media is as a whole toxic, with curated pockets of good… and small places where one can find levity and camaraderie, as long as it’s kept in mind that social media is not life or real to the toxic wants.
Facebook was designed… well, check out why it was created in the Harvard community.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:20 am
The pandemic has really done a number on my empathy…it’s hard for my to sympathize for people who ignore science, downplay the pandemic or spread misinformation.
Comment by A-Man Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:25 am
If you get to the point that you can cheer or gloat about the deaths of these reckless and ignorant people, then they have truly won. It is not easy, given the quiet rage that I (and others) have toward the anti-vaxxers, but you must try. Reddit does not help.
Comment by Jibba Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:26 am
The thing that got me about the article was the descriptions of the deaths.
I have some anti-Covid vaxxers in the family.
That’s the stuff that I want them to read.
It is not just the number that are dying but the way they die is horrendous. I really think that is what has been missing in this.
I don’t think there has been enough talk about it.
It is one thing to talk about death abstractly, simply as numbers or percentages. But reading what the patients are going through at the end is the one thing that people really need to think about. Somehow I doubt people would be so reckless if they really understood what they were getting into.
Comment by Crash Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:26 am
===If that rate is any indication, rage is growing toward anti-vaxxers deliberately prolonging the pandemic out of an anti-social and deadly understanding of their rights.===
This growing anger is something that may have a huge impact nationwide in 2022, especially if the Democrats can figure out how to capitalize off it.
Comment by Dance Band on the Titanic Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:31 am
=== Social media is helping push people towards heartless and cruel behaviors. ===
Social media does nothing of the sort. It is people that use social media that are heartless and cruel. We need to stop blaming others for the behavior we see on social media. These things appear on social media because people post them on social media.
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:31 am
=== Now do troll bots, Russian troll farms, and fake followers. ===
And where do those things come from? People. Social media is just a tool that is used by people to achieve whatever goal they are setting out to achieve. Social media is an easy target, but even if removed, these folks will just find another medium to achieve their goals.
Comment by Hannibal Lecter Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:35 am
===These things appear on social media because people post them on social media.===
It’s a place without filter that allows the worst of the worst of society a platform they never had before to reach others in a way not possible.
Social media isn’t a babe in the woods “it’s not us”, social media is an accepted toxic to society so vocal minorities can communicate within their subgroups… like a reddit subgroup too
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:36 am
Hopefully an unvaxxed, conspiracy theorist might see the page, read the stories and realize they should get vaccinated. Doubtful though.
Hard to feel empathy for someone who spreads conspiracy theories and jeopardizes public health. For their families? Definitely.
Comment by So_Ill Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:44 am
Is that you Mark Zuckerberg
My goodness gracious, lol
Sure, it’s not social media’s “fault”… giving platforms to the sickest, angriest, and at times dangerous elements of sub-society
Also…
=== And where do those things come from? People. Social media is just a tool that is used by people to achieve whatever goal they are setting out to achieve.===
If social media is vulnerable to foreign interference or worse to our country and its division… you see no fault in that?
Hmm.
===but even if removed, these folks will just find another medium to achieve their goals.===
The Mark Zuckerberg defense. Ugh.
Sure. Go with that.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:45 am
I’m fresh out of sympathy for the anti-vax and anti-mask crowd but celebrating their passing is truly reprehensible.
Comment by Manchester Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:48 am
===and I just can’t be bothered to coddle them any more===
That is pretty much where I land. The author talks about anger building in the vaccinated. Honestly, my rage level has never been higher. I legitimately hate the willingly unvaccinated, and that includes the family members I have cut off.
I will not celebrate their deaths. I mourn for their (vaccinated) friends and family, and especially their children, who have been fed a pack of lies by parents who are no longer there to care for them. But the people themselves? Zero sympathy. They’re the reason I feel this rage
Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:58 am
-Quite simply, if you were told you have a 1 in 500 chance of dying TODAY, would you do something to prevent it?-
Isn’t it only a 1 in 500 chance of dying if you are (for the most part) over 65, have health complications, are overweight, etc? If you are none of the above, isn’t the chance of dying more like one in 50,000?
Comment by Curious Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:59 am
It is truly sad that people are so ignorant. and I mean those who do not believe the virus is real/won’t mask/won’t vax. I don’t agree with celebrating their sickness and death. but I do get it.
Comment by Amalia Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 10:03 am
My brother refused to be vaccinated. He was taking high doses of vitamin D and exercising instead.
Last month he came down with Covid and received a monoclonal antibody infusion.
When I asked him if it was Regeneron, he replied, “I didn’t check the brand name.” So, hypervigilant about vaccine, but unknown (expensive) infusion OK?
Luckily, it appears that he is recovered.
He gets his news on Fox News and Facebook.
I wonder - Is there any way these “news” sources can be sued for the damage they are causing?
Comment by TinyDancer(FKASue) Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 10:04 am
It is important to understand that this subReddit focuses not on the stories of initiates into the COVID Denial Cult, but leaders of the COVID Denial Cult who projected their dangerous misinformation onto the community, recruiting cult members and attacking those who believed in the science and followed the executive orders. That’s my they have big social media footprints that are easy to follow.
Too often, the media covers their demise as a one-off individual story, rather in a way that helps us understand the phenomenon of this cult’s behavior. To develop and mobilize and encourage a change in public policy strategy or tactics, you really have to understand what’s going on from 10,000 feet.
And what becomes clear in the Slate story is that in case after case, even as they lay dying in hospitals, even impending death does not change the minds of the vast collective of COVID Denial Cult leaders.
These are not folks who are going to be convinced by science, or voluntary mask or vaccine programs.
At the same time, their collective stories do seem to have some impact on some of the initiates of the COVID Denial Cult, those who are followers but not leaders, and in the intermediate term sharing their collective stories might help convince people to get vaccinated.
I would also hope that the few decent journalists left will challenge Rep. Welter and the other members of the Eastern Bloc to read and react to HermanCainAward, ask them if they have spoken to any of the families of their constituents that have died of COVID to find out how they feel about their legislative agenda.
The governor’s office has received lots of emails of support, IDPH has the death certificates which can be sorted by county, and they should be reaching out directly to families of those that have died of COVID to ask them if they would like to join the effort to stop the spread of COVID by telling their story.
There are no undecided folks on Capitolfax.
But if those here on Capitolfax that have lost loved ones start calling up reporters or writing letters to the editor that begin “I’ve always considered myself a Conservative, but last year I lost my uncle to COVID and I can no longer remain silent…” then this tragic play might come to an early end.
Otherwise, expect a lot more HermanCainAwards.
Conservatives, if you find the awards offensive, you have the power to end them.
As for the site itself, everyone processes grief differently. Those expressing their anger through the site are processing their own grief in a pretty natural way, Anger is a well-acknowledged stage, and I am not goingvto be one of those people who judges the grieving for coming together to express their grief collectively.
Is it grim? Sure. Many of the rituals we have for processing death are grim, from ancient to modern times. Gathering around a hole and staring into it is pretty grim, but the hope is that after we eventually pass through the darkness, there is light on the other side. Passing through this site might do Darren Bailey and Jim Durkin some good.
Those who have not read the Slate piece really should go read the whole thing.
Comment by Juvenal Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 10:05 am
“Something tells me Lili doesn’t have children under 12 or immunocompromised.”
Other things she doesn’t have: 1) a job that requires her to leave the house; 2) a sense of proportion; 3) the ability to understand and empathize what it feels like to watch other adults in the society insist that they have a right to sicken and maybe kill your kid, other people’s kids, and anyone unlucky enough to be unwell. Maybe we let these antivaxxers run with their BS long enough and end up with a vax resistant variant that ends civilization itself? Who knows, we’re all riding the razor’s edge at this point.
You are god**** right I’m angry.
Comment by Larry Bowa Jr. Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 10:05 am
These people were happy to publicize their pro-COVID beliefs on social media in the most inflammatory and hateful ways. Why shouldn’t their deaths be publicized?
The top posts and top comments on HCA don’t celebrate deaths. They acknowledge them in a truthful way, which is more than I can say for many of the families of these people.
Comment by Timmeh Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 10:11 am
=While endless ink has been spilled on the anger of Trump voters and Fox News viewers and QAnon adherents, there are other angers that haven’t been nearly as well explored.=
I spend a good amount of time on my own mental health. I need too after a very hard time about 8 months ago. Its also something I try to help others on. Outside of depression and other horrible thoughts that people have, a very REAL mental health crisis is anger.
People are so gosh darn angry right now. Really, really mad. It’s changed people, how they interact with loved ones, their perception of people. It needs to be addressed and somehow fixed. Its the looming health crisis that few are talking about. It’s destroyed families and is taking a toll on the physical health of those that are angry and those who have the anger directed at them.
I avoid it the best I can, its one reason I come to CapFax. Almost everyone is an agreeable person who can disagree. Its a little look back to the way most people used to be.
It makes me sad a good portion of society has left that behind. Its one of the things I fight day and night for with my two kids - teach them critical thinking and leave the absolute anger out of your life and decision making process.
If you are or someone you know has anger issues or needs other help with their mental health please talk to them the best you can. Direct them to a good resource - or if its a personal struggle there is no shame in asking for help.
Comment by Cool Papa Bell Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 10:11 am
=Covid can be lethal but in perspective=
Here’s your perspective, moron - 640,000 Americans dead
Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 10:19 am
@Anonymous 10:13 -
Thanks for proving my point. The COVID Death cult is relentless.
https://apnews.com/article/archive-fact-checking-9171570678
Herman Cain did not have Stage 4 Cancer, he was a “relentless fighter” who had beaten Stage 4 Cancer in 2006.
And yet COVID, which the cult claims is no worse than the flu, killed him.
Don’t be a coward, if you are gonna spread lies, post them with your own name.
Comment by Juvenal Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 10:20 am
AITA - I’ve decided not to get vaccinated because it’s a government conspiracy to track my whereabouts and COVID is likely a hoax anyway. I don’t wear masks because it infringes on my constitutional rights. A friend of mine who I hang out with a lot and has the same beliefs as me got sick and died from flu-like symptoms. AITA for possibly killing my friend?
Comment by Steve Rogers Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 10:24 am
I don’t do Reddit, nor most social media. But “I’m mad as H-LL and I’m not going to take this anymore!” I’m sick of masks, social distancing, anti-vaxxers, science deniers, and political morons supporting antivaxxers and antimaskers. I’m angry that so many “educated” people have turned out to be the largest display of moronity in the history of Mankind. Turn in your college degrees, for you have failed Logic 101, Science 101, and Facts 101. Your so-called “patriotism” has harmed your entire Nation, and your fake “rights” have spread disease and death. Time for mandatory vaccination, mandatory mask wearing, and time for these morons to be called out for what they are. The party should have been over for these idiots long ago.
Comment by thisjustinagain Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 10:27 am
Just came on here to give an “amen” to TheInvisibleMan - he put it better than I could.
Comment by Tony DeKalb Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 10:33 am
The people cataloged on the HCA subreddit are very specifically the same people who have been telling us to “[expletive] your feelings, snowflake” for the last five years. And now here they are, dying hard and pathetic deaths as a result of their own callous, sociopathic choices.
And I’m here for it.
Comment by sulla Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 10:35 am
I’ve enjoyed the Herman Cain awards. Am I a mean s.o.b. for doing so? I say no because……
“Cain’s Twitter account would continue to downplay the virus even after his death”
You reap what you sow.
Comment by Lurker Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 10:52 am
Cool Papa Bell, I’m glad you got the help you needed and are doing better.
Comment by Cheryl44 Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 11:03 am
==isn’t the chance of dying more like one in 50,000?==
We’re all hostages to the virus and yet, like Harry Ellis in ‘Die Hard’, some think they can negotiate.
Comment by Jocko Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 11:03 am
==A huge underpinning of the left right divide is that those on the left are expected to be empathetic and care for their fellow man, while those on the right not only aren’t, but in fact actively engage in behaviors either recklessly or intentionally causing physical or emotional harm to others.==
This. This is what keeps me awake at night. How do we defend empathy and rule of law and human rights and dignity when one half of the country cares nothing for them and will lie and cheat and manipulate and bully to achieve and hold power? But if we abandon empathy and rule of law and human rights and dignity to fight back, hasn’t all been lost?
Comment by LakeCo Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 11:30 am
I may be considered cold, but I have zero sympathy, or any other emotion, for individuals who set themselves up for probable death and claim martyrship for themselves and their families, while vilifying the caregivers forced to watch the slow, agonizing deaths that consume so many of the anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers.
This is cultish behavior, which far-right radio, social media and Fox News feeds and exacerbates. They should be held liable.
Comment by Wensicia Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 11:32 am
While I doubt that the families of those who died from Covid are searching the Net trying to find insults to their loved ones, it’s possible someone else may see that “award” and tell them about it.
This is just today’s example of the poor taste, bad manners, and viciousness that has become an epidemic in America.
You would think people who had enough sense to get vaccinated would also have had enough sense not to add to people’s misery.
We’ve already had one Bully-in-Chief. Why do others think they have to follow in his footsteps?
Comment by Streator Curmudgeon Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 11:40 am
If at this very late date anyone still believes that shaming works in forcing the unwilling to be fully vaccinated, and engage in masking and social distancing, it would be a news flash.
When I see public sector unions and public sector employees shame themselves into compliance, I’ll shut up about it. When I see those focusing on liberty and abusing the very concept of it as a means of non-compliance, then I’ll shut up about it.
Until then.
Comment by Louis G Atsaves Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 11:41 am
I don’t see this as victim shaming at all. And if you’re only focusing on the death of these individuals you’re missing the point.
We do need to draw more attention to the behavior that leads to these consequences and the incredibly painful path that these individuals went down. Years ago the American Cancer society ran very effective campaigns that showed the personal consequences of lifelong smokers nearing the end. The images were startling and disturbing. But it wasn’t done to mock these victims. It was their last effort to atone for poor decisions and present the cautionary tale to the rest of us. No doubt it worked. I look at the HCA subreddit in a similar way. It’s not the celebration of another needless death, but a reminder of why it happened and how painful it was to the victim and their families and friends.
Comment by Pundent Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 11:56 am
== Isn’t it only a 1 in 500 chance of dying if you are (for the most part) over 65, have health complications, are overweight, etc? If you are none of the above, isn’t the chance of dying more like one in 50,000?==
1 in 500 People living in the US have died of Covid. That’s the number of people dying with Covid as a factor divided by the population of the US, Those with underlying conditions have a much greater chance of dying than 1 in 500. Those who don’t have underlying conditions have a somewhat less chance than 1 in 500. However the Deita variant is affecting younger healthier people and they are dying. The IDPH has detailed statistics. Go look
Comment by thoughts matter Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 12:04 pm
@Louis -
Read what I wrote.
The living are not trying to shame The Dead, they are expressing their grief over nearly 700K dead, and they are expressing it as Anger directed toward those who are responsible which is a natural part of the grieving process.
No one expec5s to change your mind or the mind of any other Covid Denial Cult leaders, but as Slate states, the site is changing the the minds of some cult followers and those who are thinking of joining.
Illinois is approaching a grim milestone. The Civil War claimed 31K Illinois soldiers, we are approaching 28K known Covid deaths as a state. We should think about erecting memorials in every courthouse lawn in Illinois honoring those individuals that we have lost.
Let Rep. Welter pass the names of the 87+ that have died of COVID in Grundy county every day, so that he can remember and honor them.
Comment by Juvenal Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 12:20 pm
If right-wingers and their enablers find the sub-reddit “heartless”, call it the result of years of their industrial output of lies and venom. Tough beans. Wait until the death rate shows reduction of Trump MAGA GOP voting precincts, thru fatalities and some waking up to reality, costing them elections in 2022.
Comment by VerySmallRocks Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 12:29 pm
“=== Social media is helping push people towards heartless and cruel behaviors. ===
Social media does nothing of the sort. It is people that use social media that are heartless and cruel. We need to stop blaming others for the behavior we see on social media.”
Do you realize that Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, etc. all use algorithms to push information to you based on your viewing habits? They reinforce anger and misinformation by intentionally feeding you more of it in an effort to keep you engaged and viewing advertisements. Individuals bear the ultimate responsibility for their own behavior, but thinking that social media sites are a neutral place for ideas strikes me as naive.
Comment by Nick Nombre Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 12:30 pm
“reduction of Trump MAGA GOP voting precincts, thru fatalities”
Per CNN, more people died in Alabama in 2020 than were born.
Comment by Huh? Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 12:39 pm
==Those with underlying conditions have a much greater chance of dying than 1 in 500. Those who don’t have underlying conditions have a somewhat less chance than 1 in 500.==
I disagree. 1 in 500 have passed from Covid.
If 95% of those one in 500 had comorbidities and you don’t, your chance of dying is reduced by 95%. BTW, Per https://www.cdc.gov/ (as of 9/19 Most Frequently Listed Comorbidities with COVID-19 Deaths) It says 95% of Covid deaths had underlying comorbidities. If so, that decreases the chance of dying to .05 in 500 or 1 out of 47,500.
Comment by Curious Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 12:42 pm
===It says 95% of Covid deaths had underlying comorbidities. If so, that decreases the chance of dying to .05 in 500 or 1 out of 47,500.===
Would you consider being unvaccinated comorbidities?
Why or why not?
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 1:02 pm
It’s just a new Darwin Awards. People mock others for dying idiotically all the time, this is nothing new or particularly untasteful.
Comment by TJ Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 1:13 pm
I think the slate piece does miss one thing. In that it isn’t meant to be or usually considered celebratory.
Anger, yes. Perverse sadness, sure. But not celebratory.
I myself looked at it for a bit. The first few times it’s almost reaffirming in that you’re not the crazy one for feeling exhausted. That your ability to empathize has been strained beyond the breaking point. But after that I had to stop. It simply became too sad.
Comment by Nick Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 1:24 pm
OW, I would not consider being unvaccinated as a comorbidity. Because CDC defines comorbidities as “other” underlying conditions affecting health.
I think more than a few people take odds into consideration eventually and make decisions about being vaccinated based on the odds. They’re figuring they are younger, healthy, not quite overweight and the 1 in 500 odds don’t apply to me. And they’re right. But I don’t agree with their decision.
Comment by Curious Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 2:24 pm
===I would not consider being unvaccinated as a comorbidity. Because CDC defines comorbidities as “other” underlying conditions affecting health.===
So… you’ll follow CDC here, but don’t think the need to be vaccinated is a mitigating issue to deaths?
You are not a serious person.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 2:26 pm
this Slate author is hilarious (quotes straight from the article):
“These individual stories do not produce conversions. These aren’t situations where anti-vaxxers learn their lesson, get vaccinated, and save themselves. Sure, there’s the occasional “Redemption” tag, awarded when a patient or relative regrets opposing vaccination and urges their friends to do what they can to avoid a similar fate. But those are rare.”
“People post photos of their new vaccination cards, saying that reading the r/HermanCainAward finally convinced them they didn’t want to “win.” They get enthusiastically cheered on by commenters. “I’m not anti-Vax,” one such comment reads, “I was just afraid and confused by all the misinformation out there. Genuinely frightened and confused. Taking a quick 5 minute look at this Sub-reddit brought me back down to earth. I’ll be getting my first round of the Pfizer Vaccine early next week. Thank you for existing.” There are more of these than you might expect; who knows if these stories are true, but if even some of them are, maybe these stories can, in the aggregate, persuade people who wouldn’t be especially moved by specific cases.”
So the HCA subreddit doesn’t help people learn about Covid and encourage them to get vaccinated, except when that is exactly what some of its content and members facilitate? Got it.
Comment by Antman's Violin Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 2:34 pm
===I think more than a few people take odds into consideration eventually and make decisions about being vaccinated based on the odds. They’re figuring they are younger, healthy, not quite overweight and the 1 in 500 odds don’t apply to me. And they’re right.===
You’re not a serious person because if you think they’re right and the idea these unvaccinated people might not die but infect others who may… yep, you are NOT a serious person.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 2:34 pm
OW, definitely not saying I don’t need to be vaccinated but I can see how others look at the odds and figure, eh, what’s the hurry. And, I’ll repeat, I don’t agree with their decision, But, that’s where we are.
Comment by Curious Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 2:36 pm
=== I can see how others look at the odds and figure, eh, what’s the hurry.===
You’re not a serious person.
“I’ll repeat that”
Thanks. I’m moving on.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 2:38 pm
OW, they’re right about the odds, not the decision to go unvaccinated.
Comment by Curious Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 2:38 pm
===they’re right===
They are, arguably, either infecting or helping to spread a deadly virus.
Please stop with me, you are not a serious person, a dead ender. I’ve moved on.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 2:39 pm
Being unvaccinated isn’t just an underlying condition, it is the single most important underlying condition.
The Covid Denial Cult focuses on “comorbidities” because it perpetuates the idea that 1) the victims were going to die soon anyway, Covid just hurried the process, 2) the underlying condition was due to a failed life style choice (insert fat joke here) so their death was their fault 3) The rest of us have nothing to really worry about.
Again, 99,5 percent of those who died last week were not obese, they were unvaccinated.
Also, people are terrible at cost-benefit analysis, which is why the average Lotto player spends about $1000 a year on tickets and the average american has only $65K saved for retirement.
Comment by Juvenal Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 2:48 pm
I think the ability to understand another persons rationale does not by definition make you an irrational person. In fact that’s probably part of what we need to do more of.
The fact of the matter is these people do need to get vaccinated for their benefit as well as ours. The question is how will we facilitate that happening given their belief system.
Comment by Pundent Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 2:51 pm
The subreddit in question is now up to 296K subscribers.
Publicity, either good or bad works.
Comment by Bruce( no not him) Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 2:52 pm
=== Being unvaccinated isn’t just an underlying condition, it is the single most important underlying condition.===
This is where critical thinking meets analysis.
It’s not just a measurable difference, it’s a significant measurable difference, vaccination status.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 2:53 pm
===but…but…comorbidities===
According to the CDC 6 in 10 adults in the US have a chronic disease while 4 in 10 have 2 or more. More than 40% of Americans are obese. 14% of Americans smoke. Just about everyone has SOMETHING that could be considered a co-morbidity.
Fixing co-morbidities takes time, even if it is possible. Getting the vaccine is quick and easy and cuts your chance of dying by 27 times.
I looked up the stats. The Pfizer vaccine is less than 2 drops (0.3mL) of vaccine mixed with 5 drops (6 mL) of saline. People are all worked up about a quarter teaspoon of liquid in their arm from a needle less than half a millimeter wide. Just get the shot.
Everything I mentioned applies to the individual themselves catching Covid. What about all the people they could spread it to? What about the possibility of an even more contagious or even more deadly strain mutating as it spreads?
Get. the. shot.
Comment by SomeGuy Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 3:19 pm
I wear my mask. I am vaxxed. I am pro life and against the death penalty. This celebration of misery makes me sad for our world.
Comment by snakepliskin69 Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 3:54 pm
Well worth the time to read the article. Was encouraged by the reference to the IPA subreddit that it spawned.
I get the anger at anti-vaxxers. I feel that way at times. That doesn’t mean I celebrate the deaths of these people. I also hope that the anger of the silent vaccinated shows up at the polling place to rebuke the anti-vaxxers who are candidates, regardless of party.
Comment by Original Rambler Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 4:03 pm
I have been subscribed to this subreddit for quite some time. Today, in response to some of the media coverage the subreddit has recently received. A user posted a response which has received quite a few upvotes and made it to the front page of reddit all. I think it is a reasonable defense of the existence of the subreddit.
https://old.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/psyp4w/for_those_who_say_the_hca_are_immoral_lets_see/
Capitol Fax itself has recently feature a piece about a prominent anti-vaxxer that died that was also featured on the Herman Cain Award subreddit and we live in a country right now where people are making terrorist threats at school boards, other local governments, and people making good faith efforts to implement public health strategies. We’re in the middle of a national tragedy and we’re at a place where I don’t think it is reasonable to expect people to feel empathy towards folks that justify terrorist threats with lunacy filled rants.
Comment by Candy Dogood Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 4:22 pm
Thanks Oswego Willy, and thank you Candy for that share.
I have moved through the stages of grief pretty well to the stage of Acceptance. I have accepted as Slate reported that the leaders of the COVID Denial Cult are gonna keep serving up the koolaid, almost literally.
Has anyone ever served up koolaid for 18 months, come back and said “You know that koolaid I was serving? Sorry, but….”
We can save some still, The Undecided, but for the most part we have to be focused on helping those that want to be helped.
Comment by Juvenal Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 4:48 pm
Thank you Candy Dogood. I can’t fault Reddit when the likes of Tom DeVore are still preying on people. As they point out, he and others like him have brought us to this place.
Comment by Pundent Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 5:14 pm
At some point the insurance companies need to say people who are unvaccinated can’t be covered, or need to get special COVID insurance. The money being spent on the care for those who refuse to accept science is stunning.
Comment by Just Me 2 Wednesday, Sep 22, 21 @ 9:09 pm
Look at al the prior-to-pandemic quackery in this country. Yes anti-vaxxers, But also light-weight “science” supporting supplements, and tv commercials from big pharma permitting patients to push doctors to some name brand drug. Oh and Dr. ozzzzz and the like. Have all primed the resistance culture. This is the ‘murica we have built, and well “how do you feel now”. The roots of this trouble are deep
Comment by Tallone Thursday, Sep 23, 21 @ 10:13 pm