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* Monday press release…
Today, the Illinois State Rifle Association and the Second Amendment Foundation have filed a lawsuit in federal court seeking to force the Illinois State Police (ISP) to comply with the mandated 90 and 120-day requirements to issue a Concealed Carry License if the applicant meets all qualifications.
“We hear every day from people frustrated with the delays in the Concealed Carry License process,” Richard Pearson, ISRA executive director. “The law gives the Illinois State Police a certain amount of time to respond to license applications and they routinely far exceed the allotted time. The delays are unacceptable and a lawsuit at this point seems to be the only way to get them stopped.”
The lawsuit was filed in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, Eastern Division, on behalf of Nicholas A. Luce, Joseph R. Stacho, III, David M. Rice, Jerry J. Robinson. They are represented by attorneys David G. Sigale of Wheaton, Ill, and Gregory A. Bedell of Chicago. The lawsuit is known as Luce v. Kelly. Named as defendants are ISP Director Brendan F. Kelly and ISP Firearms Services Bureau Chief Jarod Ingebrigtsen, in their official capacities.
The Illinois State Legislature requires the Illinois State Police (“ISP”) to either approve or deny an application for a CCL card within either 90 days (if the applicant submits fingerprints with the application) or within 120 days (if the applicant does not submit fingerprints). But despite this statutory command, the Illinois State Police routinely ignores these requirements and takes months and months to respond to these requests.
“Honest citizens should not have to wait excessive periods of time just to exercise their Constitutional rights,” Pearson said. “The Illinois State Police needs to comply with the law in responding to Concealed Carry License applications. It is unfortunate that we have to file a lawsuit to ensure these applications are processed in a timely manner.”
* Sun-Times…
The Illinois State Police declined to comment on the lawsuit specifically, but a spokeswoman defended the agency’s handling of Firearm Owner Identification Cards, which are required to possess guns, and Concealed Carry Licenses, which allow the holder to carry the firearm in unrestricted locations.
“Ensuring that FOID cards and concealed carry permits are promptly issued to Illinois’ citizens lawfully entitled to them is a priority for the Illinois State Police,” said Mindy Carroll, an agency spokeswoman. “For the safety and security of Illinois residents, it is imperative that all FOID and concealed carry applications are reviewed thoroughly and that all relevant background information is rigorously verified and researched.
“This is a time consuming and deliberate process. At times, the review process is lengthened due to the volume of applications, background verifications, and other operational considerations.”
Carroll noted that the Illinois State Police has added 25 Firearms Eligibility Analysts since March of last year to process these applications and seven more staff members starting this month.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 10:32 am
Sorry, comments are closed at this time.
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It would be amusing if the courts decided the state budget is now required to give mandatory additional funding to the state police. It would have the impact of increasing the budget, and reducing by one department which is subject to future budget cuts.
Comment by TheInvisibleMan Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 10:39 am
I’d take ISRA / Richard Pearson a wee bit more seriously if they worked to end “fund sweeps” … . On a related note, do they think they’re the only group of applicants that is waiting an excessive amount of time?
Comment by Anyone Remember Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 10:41 am
Surprisingly if you have a high volume of requests it extends the lead time.
FWIW, I did this in CY19. I submitted prints and I got it in 60 days. Even then there were plenty of forum bozos with ants in their pants complaining about the process taking too long. There’s just something about this crowd where they always feel persecuted.
Not really a big deal and it’s still pretty easy to get a CCL.
Comment by dan l Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 10:44 am
90 days and $80 later still waiting for my address change to be processed.
Comment by Southern Dude Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 10:46 am
I applied my renewal in May of last year. Still under review.
I will say the State Trooper who pulled me over last month was very professional and when he checked the system against was satisfied I was legal.
Comment by FormerParatrooper Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 10:54 am
Also, quick reminder that the Illinois gun community about lost their damn minds because of the mask mandate believing that it they would be locked up for wearing a surgical mask and carrying.
It’s kind of silly that we take anything these people say seriously, at this point.
Comment by dan l Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 11:05 am
===I’d take ISRA / Richard Pearson a wee bit more seriously if they worked to end “fund sweeps” … . On a related note, do they think they’re the only group of applicants that is waiting an excessive amount of time?===
The reason fund sweeps of the FOID system have stopped is because of the study done at the request of ISRA that showed the $30 million that was swept under the Rauner Administration. And, how may other groups of applicants are being denied a constitutional right?
Comment by Lollygagger Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 11:11 am
dan I , “These People” that you do not want to take seriously are your fellow neighbors, friends, co-workers, & citizens of the State that are trying to do things legally to pursue their hobbies & rights under the law. ISP was involved in the passage of FOID & CCW and should live within the parameters of the law.
Comment by NorthWoods Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 11:15 am
I know someone who works armed security and the delay in paperwork over a simple change of address is triggering a Cascade if effects that could not only put him out of work and set his career back by months, but also cost him extra time and money to re-qualify as part of the rules. It would help if Leo’s and armed professionals got prioritized.
Comment by Give Us Barabbas Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 11:15 am
I mailed a new FOID card application after spending a month trying to get a response from them on their computer system not resetting my account. No response to MANY emails. When I try to create a new account instead, I’m told an account already exists and to reset it. 3.5 months and counting since they received my new application. Contacted my Rep a week a ago and am awaiting an update.
Comment by ddp76 Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 11:25 am
That’s a pretty weak response by the ISP spokeswoman. There are folks waiting 9-12 months to get their new FOID card. It shouldn’t take nearly that long to do a “ rigorous “ background check. Hopefully with the hiring of more staff the turnaround time will speed up.
Comment by The Dude Abides Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 11:25 am
——
“These People” that you do not want to take seriously are your fellow neighbors, friends, co-workers, & citizens of the State that are trying to do things legally to pursue their hobbies & rights under the law. ISP was involved in the passage of FOID & CCW and should live within the parameters of the law.
—–
You can only cry wolf so much. Pre-pandemic these folks had the following beefs:
1) The classes take too long and/or are too expensive. We’re being treated unfairly.
2) The processing time takes too long and/or is too expensive. We’re being treated unfairly.
3) GFZ’s make us sad. We’re being treated unfairly.
4) “We don’t have syg and/or castle doctrine”. We’re being treated unfairly.
5) ISP is conspiring against us.
Post pandemic it’s been:
1) The processing time takes too long and/or is too expensive. We’re being treated unfairly.
2) But I don’t know how I can wear a mask and carry. We’re being treated unfairly.
3) ISP is conspiring against us.
It’s just this steady drip of the same repackaged complaints and persecution fantasy from these guys constantly. Of course, none of it is actually a problem.
Comment by dan l Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 11:28 am
== FWIW, I did this in CY19. I submitted prints and I got it in 60 days. Even then there were plenty of forum bozos with ants in their pants complaining about the process taking too long. There’s just something about this crowd where they always feel persecuted.
Not really a big deal and it’s still pretty easy to get a CCL.==
Good for you, but that was 2019. Something got drastically worse with processing at the agency, and it started weeks prior to the pandemic shutdown based on their own statistics. There was a drop in number of applications processed from the end of 2019 compared to the first few months of 2020, and they need answer why. That 60 days that you had is now 6 months to a year for many people. That’s not acceptable at all.
Comment by fs Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 11:28 am
We’re at 10 months and counting on a routine FOID renewal
… so they aren’t prioritizing anything.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 11:34 am
I consider myself pretty moderate but honestly I side with some of the more conservative people on this one. The fact that this ball has been dropped leaving so many without the able to update their addresses and/or renew their FOID cards alone, to me, shows that this needs to either go away or face some drastic change. If gun owners are in limbo over FOID cards that is pretty problematic especially since they are lawful gun owners, for the most part.
Comment by CMZ Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 11:36 am
“… $30 million that was swept under the Rauner Administration.”
How much was swept in the preceeding 12 years? The FOID fund was looted for almost 16 years. Recovery may take longer than a year or two … .
Comment by Anyone Remember Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 11:38 am
——-
That 60 days that you had is now 6 months to a year for many people. That’s not acceptable at all.
——-
So what’s the rush?
Comment by Dan l Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 11:40 am
== So what’s the rush?==
What other Constitutional right would you be ok with having to wait 6 months to a year for a permission slip from the government to exercise it? The people who are ok with this clearly view gun ownership as more of a privilege instead of a right. They’re wrong, and it’s time the Courts put a stop to this. It’s unacceptable.
Comment by fs Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 12:02 pm
——
What other Constitutional right would you be ok with having to wait 6 months to a year for a permission slip from the government to exercise it? The people who are ok with this clearly view gun ownership as more of a privilege instead of a right. They’re wrong, and it’s time the Courts put a stop to this. It’s unacceptable.
——-
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh there we go. I knew I could get that one out.
I am, in fact, more than happy to wait for it. Nobody is saying you can’t get it. They’re just saying you might have to wait. It’s not the end of the world.
Comment by dan l Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 12:11 pm
Dan I
A question if you don’t mind. Your comment about “what’s the rush” seems to imply you don’t see the 6mpnth wait as an issue for gun ownrrs trying to comply with the law, is there a wait you would find an issue? Is a year acceptable? As for why it matters I’ve had friends refused ammunition sales because their card was expired while waiting for a renewel, that’s kind of a problem. Even more so as ISP no longer allowes you to apply more than 60 days in advance, you used to be able to work the delays by applying early so you renewed before expiring, no longer.
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 12:17 pm
==They’re just saying you might have to wait. It’s not the end of the world.==
So you just don’t want to answer the question. A right delayed is a right denied. While you may not care about waiting a year, the thousands who lived the past year and felt it important to have access to a firearm for personal protection, and applied for the first time to get one, in many areas not known for conservative politics, feel differently. I’d rather not live in a world where the Government can choose which rights can just be ignored and which ones can’t, for no other reason than they can’t shuffle paperwork fast enough.
Comment by fs Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 12:20 pm
I do not belong to or support the NRA or ISRA, but the ISRA is 100% correct about the inordinate delays in issuing FOID’s and CCL’s. My CCL renewal has been “Under Review” for one year even though my record is spotless and my FOID was reissued in July. Why both were not processaed together is a mystery. FormerParatrooper was pulled over by an IL State Trooper who knew that the Gov’s emergency declaration extended the expiration date of his expired CCL. However, anyone who travels outside of Illinois with an expired but “Under Review” FOID or CCL renewal might think about whether any law enforcement officer, agency or judge in another state would recognize and accept the Gov’s indefinite extension of your expired FOID or CCL card. Travel infringement might form the basis for another constitutional argument.
Comment by DeepDish Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 12:23 pm
“Under the authority of 430 ILCS 65/5 (b), If a renewal application has been submitted prior to the expiration date of the applicant’s Firearm Owner’s Identification Card, the Firearm Owner’s Identification Card shall remain valid while the Department processes the application, unless the person is subject to revocation under this Act.”
Quote from the email I received when I last renewed my card online that gave me peace of mind while I waited.
In fairness, that means nothing to someone waiting for their initial FOID card.
Comment by SomeGuy Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 12:32 pm
===I am, in fact, more than happy to wait for it. Nobody is saying you can’t get it. They’re just saying you might have to wait. It’s not the end of the world.===
The more ISP screws up this process the stronger the various lawsuits that ISRA have filed will be. I say keep waiting if it means the lawsuits are successful and the FOID is declared unconstitutional.
Comment by Lollygagger Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 12:33 pm
I paid for my renewal and sent off my paperwork on Feb 10, 2020. Still waiting.
Comment by Fivegreenleaves Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 1:06 pm
—–
A question if you don’t mind. Your comment about “what’s the rush” seems to imply you don’t see the 6mpnth wait as an issue for gun ownrrs trying to comply with the law, is there a wait you would find an issue? Is a year acceptable? As for why it matters I’ve had friends refused ammunition sales because their card was expired while waiting for a renewel, that’s kind of a problem. Even more so as ISP no longer allowes you to apply more than 60 days in advance, you used to be able to work the delays by applying early so you renewed before expiring, no longer.
——
It’s not ideal, obviously. Though if the worst thing that happens to me during the pandemic is I have to leave it at home for a couple of months, I feel “ok” because that’s a pretty minor inconvenience.
But look, you want to carry - great. It takes a few things, amongst which is how to do so properly and safely, how to care for and maintain the rather expensive piece of equipment you intend to have on your hip, and program compliance. All 3 of these things take time and effort on your part. If you’re not interested in them, don’t carry.
Simultaneously, my thought here is that “It takes too long” has been a squawking point amongst the firearm ownership community forever. They didn’t really think it was going to get better during an unprecedented surge in demand, did they?
Comment by dan l Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 1:20 pm
=So what’s the rush?=
I get we are in a pandemic and for most it is not life or death but my son has waited since the first week of july for his FOID. We are going on 8 months. That just does not seem right even after all of the other priorities the state needs to address. We enjoy hunting a great deal and he can still hunt with me until he is 18 but then he has to have the FOID.
Imaging if the delays were at 6. or more months for a driver’s license. I am by no means a NRA wingnut, and you do not have to like gunes or hunting to realize that the state seems intent on making this more of an issue than it has to be.
Comment by JS Mill Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 1:21 pm
——
So you just don’t want to answer the question.
——
It’s just a gun store guy canard. It’s not even that you’re concerned about how long it takes, you just object to having to go through the program in the first place. It’s the same silly argument that people use when they get upset about red flag laws or because they can’t open carry their AR15 in a starbucks. There is, of course, no reasoning with fundamentalists and I’m not about to do it here.
——
I’d rather not live in a world where the Government can choose which rights can just be ignored and which ones can’t, for no other reason than they can’t shuffle paperwork fast enough.
——
I don’t know what to tell you. Move to one of the autonomous regions where they don’t have these programs in place. Texas I guess? Just hope you don’t get a few snow flurries, though.
Comment by dan l Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 1:30 pm
You did not have to wait to exercise your right of free speech, would you be ok with a six month wait to post your response.
Comment by illinois_citizen Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 1:42 pm
Dan I
You’re dodging sir. This isn’t just CCL licenses this is the foid as well. The very ability to purchase a firearm or the ammunition to utilize it is also delayed. Do you think a 6 month to a year wait is an acceptable wait? Yes for LEO’s it’s treated as still valid but that doesn’t exactly help you in a retail facility when you want to buy a box of shells.
As for your last sentence/question these delays aren’t unique to Covid taking less than 6 months was a new development. The people complaining/sueing haven’t done anything but comply with the law while numerous governors pilfered the funds needed to keep the program going. That to me seems like a valid complaint. They’ve complied with the law and in return the State has made it impossible for them to comply due to it’s own incompetence.
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 1:50 pm
I don’t think this process is accidental.
Comment by Blue Dog Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 1:52 pm
—–
You’re dodging sir. This isn’t just CCL licenses this is the foid as well. The very ability to purchase a firearm or the ammunition to utilize it is also delayed. Do you think a 6 month to a year wait is an acceptable wait?
—–
Again. Not ideal, but understandable given the situation.
——
The people complaining/sueing haven’t done anything but comply with the law while numerous governors pilfered the funds needed to keep the program going. That to me seems like a valid complaint.
——
Maybe. But the response is going to be the same: “There was a pandemic, we saw an incredible surge in demand that nobody could have forseen. We got backed up”.
Comment by dan l Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 2:02 pm
Dan I
Ok, at what point would you consider the delay to be beyond just “not ideal” is 2 years ok? 3?
Just curious at what time of delay you would view as unacceptable or an infringement of rights.
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 2:07 pm
My FOID renewal is now at 14 months and counting.
Comment by 332bill Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 2:21 pm
——
Ok, at what point would you consider the delay to be beyond just “not ideal” is 2 years ok? 3?
——
idk. Look. I get it. You want the G to do this work overnight for you. If it takes longer, it’s infrgin’ your rights. That’s fine.
The rest of us are comfortable being patient and compliant with the process.
Comment by dan l Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 2:23 pm
–“There was a pandemic, we saw an incredible surge in demand that nobody could have forseen. We got backed up”.–
Isn’t that a tacit admission that we delayed those folks rights due to our bureaucratic failures. Yes Covid was a mess, but the state still has obligations to minimize delays like this.
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 2:24 pm
== I don’t know what to tell you. Move to one of the autonomous regions where they don’t have these programs in place. ==
You mean literally almost every other State in the country that doesn’t require an archaic, overly burdensome system to merely possess a firearm in your own home, like Illinois? The amount of money Illinois spends to prop up and try to defend a licensing system that’s been redundant and pointless for well over 20 years is astronomical and could be much better used in enforcement elsewhere. And now they can’t even administer in a constitutionally timely manner. The courts need to hammer them.
Comment by fs Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 2:30 pm
Dan I
So there is no delay you would view as an infringement/inadequate. Actually I don’t want the G to do it instantly but I think they should be reasonably close to their deadlines. Day within a month or 2 of the deadline and if they cannot make it then they should be making demonstrable effort to meet those deadlines. That’s just me.
As for being patient that’s a very comfortable perspective. If someone is purchasing a firearm because of a stalker, violent ex, or crime in their neighborhood should they be patient? Yes if all you do is plink for fun waiting is just an inconvenience.
Personally I think 6mo+ is excessive.
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 2:33 pm
== “There was a pandemic, we saw an incredible surge in demand that nobody could have forseen. We got backed up”.==
The State Police apparently had no issue working through other backlogs like dna processing, even with the pandemic. It might sound like a nice sound bite to say covid prevented them from processing cards, but it’s an absolute crock of you know what of an excuse.
Extended delays currently being experienced started being delayed before covid hit. If you want to look at something to blame, start with the extra programs and responsibilities that were piled on state police firearms services when Pritzker came in. Including a pointless dealer licensing program whose only real accomplishments has been running hundreds of small businesses to close their doors.
Comment by fs Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 2:39 pm
==Yes Covid was a mess, but the state still has obligations to minimize delays like this.==
You can’t just blow by “Covid was a mess”.
That’s like saying the Meredosia Bridge collapsed but being mad and blaming IDOT because you can’t cross the river.
Comment by don the legend Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 2:47 pm
Don legend
Fair enough Covid was a significant problem but as has been mentioned these delays started before Covid. To me that says the issue is structural not situational, Covid exacerbated a pre-existing problem instead of creating it. The state should, IMHO, be taking steps to fix the root problem. I doubt a court declares the foid unconstitutional, I understand the argument but I doubt it will prevail that said an order to decrease delays may help to reduce the fund sweeps.
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 2:59 pm
I remember when we didn’t have a FOID. And I’ve had a FOID since the 1970’s. The system used to work; it doesn’t now. So I fully support the ISRA suing over its’ non-function.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 3:03 pm
== I doubt a court declares the foid unconstitutional ==
I wouldn’t bet against it. To repeat one of many legal adages, justice delayed it justice denied. Get the right judge and he may declare Illinois an open carry State if they can’t fix the system in a timely manner.
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 3:08 pm
==The state should, IMHO, be taking steps to fix the root problem.==
There was a bill last year that increased the cost of the FOID card from a dollar a year to four dollars a year. Too bad it didn’t pass, we could have hired more people to process the paperwork.
Comment by Fly like an eagle Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 3:10 pm
== There was a bill last year that increased the cost of the FOID card from a dollar a year to four dollars a year. Too bad it didn’t pass, we could have hired more people to process the paperwork.==
Plus fees for fingerprints. Oh, and doubling the amount of work by requiring renewals every 5 years instead of 10. An absolutely stupid bill. Money isn’t the biggest issue, prioritization is.
Comment by fs Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 3:14 pm
–I wouldn’t bet against it.–
Fair enough but I’m cynical. I don’t think ending it would actually influence much since the Brady bill seemed to duplicate it’s purpose. Ironically, at least to me, the private seller verification process from 2015 at least have it a purpose.
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 3:14 pm
Fly like an eagle
Ya it increased the fee while doubling the number of renewels and adding additional steps for the reviewers to complete. Kind of the rub though isn’t it, the state takes the money in the account to use for other things then demands more cash to replace the money it took.
Comment by Mason born Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 3:17 pm
Applied for a replacement FOID in September. Still waiting. There is really no excuse for the quagmire the ISP have created in this bureau.
Comment by dr. reason a. goodwin Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 3:20 pm
I sent in my renewal in May of 2020. “Still under review”. Total cluster.
Comment by JDuc Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 3:24 pm
===There was a bill last year that increased the cost of the FOID card from a dollar a year to four dollars a year.===
ISP has plenty of money. When the State can sweep $30 million dollars dedicated to the FOID/CCW program, which is several years of costs of the program, then this issue is governance or lack of governance. The courts are not going to look highly on this issue if they don’t get their act together. The governor promised changes a few years ago and we still have the same old tired excuses.
Comment by Lollygagger Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 3:41 pm
I submitted my renewals for my CCL and FOID in late February of 2020- they were due to expire in May of 2020. I got them back two weeks ago.11.5 months- also multiple emails were sent by me to ISP- never a response, unable to get any information from website, but they sure took my money the day it was received..Ridiculous.
Comment by Countrygirl Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 5:02 pm
=That’s like saying the Meredosia Bridge collapsed but being mad and blaming IDOT because you can’t cross the river.=
Or blaming Bill Cellini for the horrible Springfield-area highway infrastructure and pothole-laden streets in the city and area.
Which I actually do (at least part of the blame).
Comment by Essential State Employee Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 8:39 pm
== Fair enough but I’m cynical. ==
- mason born - , remember, that is basically how we ended up with the current concealed carry law … the courts told the Legislature to fix it, or they would (banned punctuation)
Comment by RNUG Tuesday, Mar 9, 21 @ 8:52 pm
== It’s just this steady drip of the same repackaged complaints and persecution fantasy from these guys constantly. ==
Wow dan l proven right so quickly.
Fix the FOID act maybe wasn’t perfect but raising the prices fourfold can certainly go a long way towards fixing this frustrating problem of wait times.
Comment by Fly like an eagle Wednesday, Mar 10, 21 @ 7:04 am
If the shoe was on the other foot and I delayed renewing my CCL by 180 days, what would the ISP’s response be?
Comment by Just saying Thursday, Mar 11, 21 @ 8:33 am