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* You’ve got live coverage, declared winners and a whole bunch of other things to talk about.
* Just to give you some more to chew on, the Tribune’s results are here. Sun-Times results are here. Coverage links…
* Tribune
* NBC 5
* CBS 2
* SJ-R
* BND
* QC Times
I wrote until close to 5 this morning, so I’m gonna get a little sleep. Please keep your discussion Illinois-centric and do your very best not to rip each other apart in comments. Thank you kindly.
posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 4:53 am
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Congressman Jim Oberweis?
Comment by JSI Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 6:34 am
Very first thing I thought of this morning.
First thing.
=== - Oswego Willy - Friday, Sep 25, 20 @ 9:37 am
Here the realities, without the hyperbole;
The Governor had “71 and 36” to get the CA on the ballot.
The Governor also had GA pass the rates.
Two votes, the Dems has for this tax
The Governor then sat on $50 million+ for weeks and weeks and weeks. Now, with early voting and absentee ballots out, has the governor made a colossal error by not saturating a message on the 97% aspect, and by Stratton bringing in the closing argument, in September (well, people *are* voting) what is going to be discussed more; the 97% not seeing an increase or the increase that will be needed if it fails… for weeks and weeks.
Then, if it does fail, will the governor find Dem votes to increase as Stratton says (they probably can) but how can you trust a governor who sat on two huge assets (time from spring passage and $50 million) to define the CA, unabated, and make time an asset, which now is squeezed, artificially now, by burning daylight.
Will Dems legislators say… “Governor, you had the time and the money, why did you wait, you had the field open too?”
Did Stratton go out on this alone or was this calculated… and now it makes the discussion, with Griffin’s $20 million and his time window still open, about a massive income tax increase, not the 97% seeing no change?
It’ll be interesting. I dunno if the saturation of the 97% took hold.===
The Fair Tax Flop has changed so much to the politics of Illinois Democrats.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 6:52 am
I remain in awe in the ability of the 1% to convenience middle class voters to carry their water and protect their incomes. And those middle class voters fall for it time after time.
Comment by Give Me A Break Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 7:02 am
But, if I’m “fair”… while *still* believing every word above…
=== - Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 5, 20 @ 1:36 pm
…
My hunch?
The formula(s) for passage are relying on a coupe of variables and within those various variables, even a “beauty contest” snapshot isn’t honest to what’s needed for passage.
The opponents need to sow negativity. If their numbers jived, we’d see those.
Proponents need “an inside straight“ to get this to pass… predicated on how much they bet and how much the people watching this “Texas Hold ‘Em” like the outcome of the hand for them and their families.
That’s how crazy this is to passage.===
“Will a huge turnout, like 2+ million VBMs (today and growing) and early voting be enough to get that insider straight?”
Ever watch ESPN’s “Texas Hold Em” coverage?
They give a percentage of the likelyhood of a winning hand.
I see the hand, right now, at 33% of a chance at passage.
The river card might be enough of that inside straight coming in.
I see it passing, but not by any ease or metric that shows ease in it.
Post Morten? Yikes, the weeks wasted, but…===
The post mortem is my thoughts above.
Instead of getting an inside straight… they “paired their 3 of Diamonds” on the board.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 7:05 am
Willie - you give the passage a percentage of 33 percent? I think it’s more like 2. The votes are not there.
Comment by Jack M Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 7:14 am
- Jack M -
(Sigh)
Re-read. Thanks.
It’s defeated.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 7:17 am
Lake County still has close to 60 thousand mail-in ballots still to count. The clerk announced that we won’t know those until Nov 10th. So things are still way up in the air up here.
Comment by Left of the Lake Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 7:26 am
== Congressman Jim Oberweis? ==
It isn’t over yet, but it appears so. Oberweis and Foster both as part of the Illinois delegation.
Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 7:28 am
In a pretty good year for Illinois Democrats locally, with a couple of exceptions so far, the Governor’s tax increase appears to be losing by half a million votes. Shouldn’t that send a message to the Governor and the legislature that in a heavily Democratic state that people really don’t want to have tax increases even on a small subset of the population? The question I have, is will they get the message? While I voted no, I thought it had a decent chance of passing. But it lost, and it lost decisively. Be interesting to see what happens next.
Comment by Really Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 7:29 am
===Be interesting to see what happens next===
What happens next is everyone sees a tax increase instead of just those who are most able to afford it. Congrats on your ‘victory’.
Comment by Cubs in '16 Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 7:47 am
I’m glad the Fair Tax lost. I have a feeling that as soon as possible those brackets would be sliding down as to who gets increases. This way I’m hoping Spingfield thinks very carefully about spending and where money goes becuase no one there wants to have to raise taxes on the low and middle class because then they are afraind of losing their next election. Make them work, make them see where cuts can be made. Also, I could see them in two years lower the brackets blaming COVID 19 for the need, and then again saying we are still recviring.
I’m also glad I won’t get bombarded with texts asking me to go out and vote.
Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 7:47 am
Illinois 3rd District. Marie Newman wins, but the Republican vote was very very high. Shows that her district is not a progressive stronghold.
Comment by Southwest Sider Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 7:50 am
@ Really- see below. You were bamboozled (again I would guess) by the Ken Griffin’s of the world.
=I remain in awe in the ability of the 1% to convenience middle class voters to carry their water and protect their incomes. And those middle class voters fall for it time after time.=
I am sure you can enjoy a night at any one of his homes across the globe.
His life and income changed not one iota regardless of the tax rate. Can you say the same? Enjoy the tax increase you voted for yourself.
Comment by JS Mill Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 7:50 am
=make them see where cuts can be made. =
Where did Rauner make cuts (not paying bills is not the same as a cut, it is just whelching)because when asked he and his superstars couldn’t find any legal cuts or waste, fraud, and abuse.
Comment by JS Mill Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 7:53 am
Really surprised by the Fair Tax vote. People just do not like tax increases of any kind. Now we see if the Dems have the votes to make the tough decisions we need.
Comment by Chicagonk Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 7:55 am
None of the Fair Tax mailers in my home that I received which were pro-fair tax came from any organization that was created for the express purpose of promoting the fair tax.
There are multiple active voters registered to my address.
I did see a lot of ads Youtube and Hulu, but those aren’t really ads I pay attention to as I am usually frustrated by their existence. Those ads also didn’t present what I would call a clear or concise argument.
Comment by Candy Dogood Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 7:57 am
Do you think the Fair Tax would have had a better shot if along with new income-based rates they had also passed a new non-income based rate?
So it became a ‘either you vote for a 25% tax increase for yourself or a 25% tax increase for someone else’
Comment by OneMan Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 7:58 am
JS Mill: Do you really think I was against the Amendment?
Comment by Give Me A Break Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:01 am
I think the fair tax came down to a matter of trust. Do you trust the IL General Assembly? A resounding h*** no.
Comment by Birds on the Bat Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:03 am
== Do you think the Fair Tax would have had a better shot if along with new income-based rates they had also passed a new non-income based rate? ==
Yes. It was political malpractice to have not passed a contingent flat tax rate also.
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:04 am
We weren’t “bamboozled” by anybody. We didn’t send the unfair tax down in flames because we are ignorant, although your condescension in believing that does not surprise me. The tax as proposed was fundamentally unfair. Not to mention the state just finished raising every other tax they could. Enough already. Time for a reckoning. Everybody pays or nobody pays. If they won’t modify spending practices then raise everyone’s taxes and face the electoral consequences, if any. Have a nice day and bless your heart.
Comment by Captain Obvious Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:06 am
I’m not surprised about the Fair Tax outcome, the pro-tax group did an incredibly bad job of selling it. They sat back and let the anti-tax group flood the airwaves and set the narrative early on.
I know a bunch of state employees who voted no because they were convinced this was going to open the constitution to pension change and tax retirement.
Comment by MrX Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:09 am
=== Everybody pays or nobody pays===
Ken Griffin is laughing *at* you.
As for malpractice, - RNUG - adds to the list of the Flat Tax Flop.
Arguably one of the biggest losers is, and will be Mike Frerichs… inserting the Frerichs Tax in the soup, Mike Frerichs stands tall… as a symbol of how to really mess things up when things were chosen.
The Frerichs Tax might propel someone to take on Frerichs, maybe even take him out in a primary.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:13 am
I had something more personal today, received IDES letter about my UI request is pending. Sadly I never requested unemployment, so I filled out fraud form. See how long it takes to be contacted.
Thought Betsy would do better against Rodney. Thankfully their commercials are over here in central Il.
Comment by BTO2 Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:14 am
==Congressman Jim Oberweis?==
If that holds, I anticipate Rockford will be in the 14th district instead of the 17th in two years.
Comment by Chatham Resident Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:14 am
Fair Tax
I think the reason it lost is this: lack of trust.
The proponents didn’t address that issue at all.
There is a long list of IL broken promises
“Tolls will be off by 197X”
“All gambling will go to the schools”
“This ramp will solve the pension issue”
“97% will see no increase or a decrease”
Why on earth would anyone think this would be different? Failing to address THAT was a big reason for the loss.
And I too saw lots of internet ads, essentially the same thing. Spend all you want, if the message isn’t right, it’s so much money down the hole.
Comment by Fav Human Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:18 am
“Arguably one of the biggest losers is, and will be Mike Frerichs…”
OW,
So are you saying that Mike Frerichs was incorrect in in words, or that he was talking about something that was to be kept from the voters?
Comment by squirrel Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:18 am
=== So are you saying that Mike Frerichs was incorrect in in words, or that…===
I’m gonna stop it here. Mike Frerichs spoke like a dorm room neophyte, with no 71 or 36 that would be needed, or any governor… that’s *any* governor… willing to sign on stepping… on the third rail of Illinois politics. Then that *same* 71… AND… and 36 would need to vote… again… to tax retirement income to override.
Mike Frerichs stands tall for lunacy to be liked in a dorm room discussion, only hurting by his unrealistic idea of the politics.
Then this… (sigh)
===…he was talking about something that was to be kept from the voters?===
Read above. There’s nothing to be kept, there’s no political will or “juice” to make it so.
Mike Frerichs decided to step in and hurt things to seem smart and winning without thinking.
Now it’s the Frerichs Tax.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:24 am
What happens next with eh CA defeated is a tax increase on everyone in addition to cuts in services for programs still trying to recover from a lack of funding for the better part of three years. Congrats, folks, on making a bad situation in our state worse.
Comment by Fixer Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:31 am
The probable failure of the Fair Tax probably has less to do with people thinking their taxes will up and more to do with people just not wanting to continuously bail out the pension problem. They don’t care who gets taxed, they just don’t want taxes to be the answer.
Comment by California Guy Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:43 am
=== bail out the pension problem===
Of all ads and mail… “the pension problem” wasn’t a mitigating factor.
The fear or rates, the taxing of retirement income, “new powers to tax”… and the closing argument of the “politicians tax”
The pension phony is IPI thinking, not part of what was used to defeat the Fair Tax.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:46 am
Here’s a couple solutions and an observation:
Flat Tax fallout - D’s should cut areas in R’s strongholds - close EIU for starters. 2nd, now tax retirement income over $500k at current flat rate and blame on Griffin. And finally, for Supreme Court D’s need to find a candidate now and start the field game.
Comment by Annoyed Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:49 am
I hope everybody is ready for that flat rate to jump
Comment by Nick Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:49 am
Ken Griffin is a step closer to reducing my pension. Whomever he chooses as the next Governor will continue Rauners effort to break the state. “Creating facts”. His choice to replace Kilbride will be there as a vote against the protection clause. I don’t know how they will do it but I’m sure those 6 activist SCOTUS judges will provide cover at the federal level.
Comment by anotheretiree Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:49 am
BTO2 - same thing happened to me. I called the ides fraud hotline to inform them of the fraudulent claim. I also sent, via fax and USPS, a letter with a copy of my most recent pay stub stating I was still employed.
Comment by Huh? Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:50 am
There’s really no denying it, the pro-side flopped.
The amount of disinformation I found talking to regular people about it, or the idea that somehow this would give the General Assembly new taxing powers was just insane.
Comment by Nick Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:50 am
JB should have talked to Mitt Romney - if you let your opponent define you early, you don’t recover.
GOP knows a tax hike is coming - it’s their ticket out of superminority status.
Comment by lake county democrat Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 8:55 am
Oberweiss possibly winning because of turnout against the Fair Tax? Didn’t see that coming.
Comment by City Zen Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:04 am
As has been said, the fair tax failure is pretty simple. No one trusts the state to use the money to fix the pension issues. Maybe JB can try this again in a few years. But first he has to build up some trust. A great first step would be to focus all further revenue gains (whether through higher taxes, lower deductions, or just a growing economy) and spending cuts into shoring up the pensions. 3 or 4 years of that would give people a lot more trust that the Governor would use the flexibility offered by the Fair Tax to fix the state.
Comment by Funtimes Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:07 am
Kim Foxx on WGN, don’t think its a good look to have bottles of booze next to her in the shot.
Comment by BigLou Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:11 am
Fair Tax Flop struck me as a massive unforced error. Poorly run campaign by labor bros and the holier than thou Pritzker campaign team plus overly simplified messaging that insulted voters by not taking time to help them understand the purpose of the fair tax. It was clear that this thing wasn’t on a great path for months, made worse by KG and all his money, and the campaign team was too arrogant to rethink strategy and pivot. A big, brutal L for all of us that we’ll be feeling in many ways for years to come.
Comment by The Most Anonymous Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:11 am
You can say the pension fiasco was not the cause of the demise of the supposed Fair Tax but the excruciating burden it puts on expenditure side in the State Budget is most definitely tied to the need of any tax increase. The citizens see a need to cut expenditures as a solution to the problem after seeing a huge increase in gas taxes(needed), significant car registration and the raise in other taxes a fees they were apprehensive of more tax increases. They only see taxing and spending running rampant after many have seen their local communities continually raise property taxes and impose more taxes on utilities and more user fees. Most people do not follow State government that closely and most probably did not do their homework on the matter and probably half read the question and when it said anything pertaining to rate increase they probably voted No. It is well past the time for solutions to be made the pension problem that is definitely the elephant in the room that no one wants to recognize.
Comment by Arock Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:12 am
The Fair Tax Flop will go down, by sitting on $50+ million for weeks… no, months and months, and months… and losing… right up there with the O’Malley Mistake, thinking saving cash for a gubernatorial run was smart as “Punch 10” was on the tracks… and the Friday Fiasco… Dan Rutherford ended his own career for no real reason, with a press conference saying nothing.
It’s that big of a flop… colossal.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:15 am
Many voters rejected tax cuts for themselves because…they don’t like or trust Springfield with their money. So they will continue to give Springfield more of their money. Griffin et al. must be laughing. It is funny at some level.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:17 am
Welp, the unfair tax didn’t pass, but taxes are going up anyway. The only thing left to decide now is what the new flat tax rate will be.
Comment by Taxman Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:18 am
First thought is of the basics:
Dems have often won in competitive districts because of better face-to- face campaigning — door knocking five or ten times as much as GOPers, intimate coffees with constituents every weekend, town halls every month, meetings in residences. COVID defense took Dems best practices away. More ads didn’t replace personal contact.
Comment by walker Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:18 am
== It is well past the time for solutions to be made the pension problem … ==
a) The courts have said the pensions have to be paid.
b) The pensions can’t be changed for existing workers.
c) States can’t take bankruptcy.
So what is your solution?
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:22 am
=== but the excruciating burden it puts on expenditure side in the State Budget is most definitely tied to the need of any tax increase.===
This is a good take.
Voters don’t do nuance, that’s where this is true, also where the Fair Tax Flop truly failed when sitting on both time and cash. The Fair Tax folks let the discussion be about taxing and “politicians”… pensions are a nuance not needed.
This is also really tasty to the Flop;
=== Most people do not follow State government that closely and most probably did not do their homework on the matter and probably half read the question and when it said anything pertaining to rate increase they probably voted No.===
It’s nuance. Voters don’t do it.
=== It is well past the time for solutions to be made the pension problem===
Gotta past muster to the pesky constitution. That has not changed.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:23 am
When does the ARDC hearing for Kim Foxx begin?
Comment by Amalia Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:24 am
- walker -
Agreed.
Texting with another person last night, they sent this and I agreed;
“Dems had zero ground game, not because they lacked, but because they couldn’t, and all the air cover can’t replace a solid ground game at the end of races”
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:25 am
What should happen? Retirement income above $50,000 should be taxed.
Comment by Hickory Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:28 am
== Ken Griffin is a step closer to reducing my pension. ==
Nope. He’d have to void the US Contracts Clause OR change bankruptcy law.
Contracts - that would also open the door to voiding ALL contracts … including existing government bonds. Don’t think Griffin wants that.
Bankruptcy - there are a lot of existing law that sovereign entities (states) with the power to raise revenue can’t declare bankruptcy.
In both cases, Ken Griffin would have to get Federal laws changed ..laws that are the foundation of capitalism. Not likely to happen.
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:29 am
With the Fair Tax failing, I’d bet the state looks at reducing the LGDF share again. It’s an easy way to “increase revenue/decrease expenses” and do you think the normal person off the street knows that their property taxes went up becasue of some distributive revenue stream being reduced? No. As said, voters don’t do nuance.
Comment by DuPage Guy Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:29 am
RNUG-
I am very envious of your patience in dealing with those who continually spout nonsense about pension reform.
Comment by Flyin' Elvis'-Utah Chapter Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:30 am
As I predicted, the “Fair Tax” goes down in flames.
Comment by Petey L. Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:32 am
I think the failure of the so-called Fair Tax is a referendum on Springfield; and less about fairness of tax policy. I have lived here my entire life. Illinois is synonymous with wasteful spending and corruption. PS. District 51 handily flipped to a Republican in the House. I am very surprised.
Comment by PraireState Sense Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:33 am
How many VBMs are outstanding? When the VBM and provisional is finalized, some races that seem closer than normal will pull away and others will seem closer even though they aren’t/weren’t. For example, the Cook Clerk has marked my VBM as returned today even though I did a drop box on Friday during the morning.
Comment by Precinct Captain Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:37 am
“Illinois is synonymous with wasteful spending and corruption.”
But now millions of taxpayers will continue giving more of their money to waste, fraud and abuse. Funny, on a cosmic level, and deserved, unfortunately.
Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:39 am
== What should happen? Retirement income above $50,000 should be taxed. ==
Now that we are apparently stuck with a flat tax structure, how are you going to do that without triggering court cases that a $50,000 exemption violates the flat tax and creates a progressive tax structure?
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:40 am
==What happens next is everyone sees a tax increase instead of just those who are most able to afford it. Congrats on your ‘victory’.==
And when Pritzker signs his name to a tax hike on everyone, while people and businesses are trying to recover from the shutdowns, well, good luck in two years.
Comment by fs Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:42 am
What’s behind Ozinga being a Republican? Did his company lose a contract at Madigan’s hands? Bold
Comment by PraireState Sense Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:47 am
=== And when Pritzker signs his name to a tax hike on everyone===
That’s what the Flat Tax was hoping to fully avoid, now the Flat Tax Flop puts the Governor right in the middle of possibly signing a tax increase, trying to cobble 60 and 30 to do it after letting down the 71 and 36 in getting the Fair Tax passed, and all that… is still, in essence, a necessity to govern.
How can a GA Dem look at the governor now and not worry about themselves in 2 years for cover when they did what was asked on the Fair Tax and it can NOT be argued all was done to pass it. Sitting on $50 million for months isn’t cover, so now there’s gonna be a push?
Look for messaging to be… “we need to pay our bills”… and nuance to social services of governing functions.
It’s a colossal fail.
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:47 am
== It’s a colossal fail.==
Yep. The impact of this on the dynamics of State politics cannot be understated.
Comment by fs Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:54 am
On the fair tax if nothing else everyone will finally decide that we can’t have it both ways. Services will be cut and facilities will close. I suspect some local property taxes will go up to close the gap.
Comment by Publius Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:54 am
I am disappointed the fair tax failed. What are the opinions of the new flat tax rate? 6% or more? Perhaps with the new flat tax high enough, we can have another go in 22 with a CA tied to a lower contingent flat rate as suggested above?
Comment by Just A Dude Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:55 am
Or overstated. You know what i mean.
Comment by fs Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:55 am
=== You know what i mean.===
It’s been a long night
Comment by Oswego Willy Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:56 am
=COVID defense took Dems best practices away. More ads didn’t replace personal contact.=
That’s what I’m thinkin’.
Surprised to find (too late) how many people I know who were completely brain-washed and voting against their own self-interest.
Not enough ground game.
You need a something comparable to Census outreach.
Comment by TinyDancer(FKASue) Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 9:57 am
The Fair Tax not only went down, but likely played a roll in the “Blue Wave” not playing out as anticipated in the IL House suburban races.
The Republicans actually gave away the Skillecorn seat as he gave up/essentially dropped out, and Grant Wherli was an incredibilty unmotivated candidate in a seat the R’s should have kept. The pick up really should have been a net 4.
Comment by Go Big Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:02 am
===Perhaps with the new flat tax high enough, we can have another go in 22===
Umm, it’s tough enough to pass a tax referendum that failed by a few percentage points, two years later. This is a Constitutional Amendment. I’d say the odds of resurrecting are more likely in a decade or so.
Comment by Six Degrees of Separation Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:03 am
GOP state employees of southern Illinois, prepare for facility closures.
But hey, you showed Pritzker.
Comment by Flyin' Elvis'-Utah Chapter Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:09 am
==those who continually spout nonsense about pension reform.==
hear, hear (exclamation point) I should call my lender and ask about ‘mortgage reform’
Comment by Jocko Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:11 am
RNUG -
Your response about how you cant apply the flat tax over a certain threshold makes me wonder. If I’m making only $16,000 a year (for instance) does the state of Illinois tax me or do they waive any income tax since Im below poverty level? My assumption (and possibly wrong) was that the flat tax only kicks in after a certain annual income level is achieved.
Comment by Maximus Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:13 am
Make the hard choice for once GA democrats. Increase the flat tax to 10%. Tax retirement income. Increase deductions and exemptions for lower-income earners to mitigate the sizable increase. Put every damn dime of the increase into the pensions. I don’t care if you get reelected. If that is your focus, you have already failed in your job.
Comment by Funtimes Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:17 am
With the failure of the Fair Tax it is now time to focus on revamping and reorganizing government at all levels within the state state to become much more efficient at delivering needed services and, in fact, determining which services are actually essential. We currently have far too many units of government in the state. Everyone seems to agree with this, but no one acts to reduce the number. How about passing a law that designates the state, county, municipal and school districts as the only acceptable governmental entities? This would abolish townships and special taxing units and assign their current responsibilities and revenues to the county or municipal level as appropriate. Underpopulated counties and school districts should be mandated by the state to consolidate. The status quo is no longer tenable and only a far reaching downsizing of the number of governmental entities in the state as well as a serious review of the services each
provides will satisfy the mandate (right or wrong) that our citizens have given us with yesterday’s vote.
Comment by striketoo Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:19 am
=I am disappointed the fair tax failed. What are the opinions of the new flat tax rate? 6% or more? Perhaps with the new flat tax high enough, we can have another go in 22 with a CA tied to a lower contingent flat rate as suggested above?=
I appreciate the comments stating that the Democratic ground game could not come out, and that’s an explainer for some of the losses, including the CA. However, this was an election with one of the most unpopular, divisive, toxic politicians at the top of the ticket in American history. Logically, people coming out to vote Trump out would be a bit more sympathetic to passage of a progressive tax. That didn’t happen. Instead, JB just spent $59 million of his own money for nothing. If not this election cycle, when is there going to be a better chance? There is apparently an inherent unpopularity to any sort of tax increase that messaging it as “fair” and “progressive” could not overcome. Even the question as posed asked whether Illinois should move to a tax rate structure “like the rest of the country,” and that wasn’t enough. Losing by 500,000 votes is an enormous repudiation. Where do you find 500,000 votes in a few years?
So part of the question now is, in 2022 and 2024, where should JB spend his money? Where will Democrats have the opportunity to play offense? Where will they need to play defense? It would be almost indefensible to spend resources on another progressive tax amendment, given this result, when those resources will be needed elsewhere.
Of course, national politics will also be at play. If Biden wins the presidency, we can expect slightly weaker Democrat turnout in the next two election cycles given history.
Rauner lost and completely walked away from the state. He was self funding and funding Rs up and down the ticket, and now he’s in Italy or Florida, who knows? He’s gone and he isn’t funding anyone anymore. JB isn’t going anywhere. He will be governor for at least the next 2 years and probably longer. The big question though is whether and where he wants to spend more of his money for the party writ large.
Comment by Playin' in Peoria Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:23 am
striketoo
Agree. I live a community with three different government snow plows, pensions, staff and salaries. Is this a revenue issue or spending? Do we still need a state Horse Racing Board?
Comment by PraireState Sense Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:23 am
striketoo has the right idea. The government entities wont merge or downsize themselves, it has to be mandated from above.
Comment by Maximus Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:30 am
“this would abolish townships”
Good luck with that. While I agree 100%, watch all those small-gubmint Republicans start screaming about their autonomy and loss of community identity.
Comment by Flyin' Elvis'-Utah Chapter Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:33 am
===And when Pritzker signs his name to a tax hike on everyone, while people and businesses are trying to recover from the shutdowns, well, good luck in two years./==
Agree, let’s play it out further too. Pritzker loses in two years to Ken Griffin (or his proxy). The republican governor facing off against a dem supermajority (or close to it) refuses to pass a budget that doesn’t include cuts related to “waste, fraud, and abuse” but refuses to identify enough cuts to create a balanced budget. And around and round we go.
Comment by Sox Fan Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:37 am
striketoo,
the problem is I have heard many people state that the township clears the streets they’re responsible for better than the county and I have personally witnessed some counties that clear the snow and deal with other services far better than the next county over. So how are you going to keep services at a level that people expect while eliminating layers of government? And more importantly, how are you going to sell that idea to people who like the services their current arrangement provides?
Comment by cermak_rd Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:37 am
==voting against their own self-interest==
Funny how perspectives can vary.
Some think that voters didn’t vote in their self interest by voting down the fair tax.
Others think that voters finally voted in their self interest by not trusting Illinois politicians.
Comment by Theshow Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:39 am
Thinking more on the Fair Tax debacle, I don’t think there was a path to 60%, but not getting 50% is an embarrassment. The proponents did a terrible job of educating voters. Madigan, Harmon, and Pritzker should have passed something raising the flat tax percentage that would have gone into effect if the fair tax failed.
Comment by Chicagonk Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:39 am
“state, county, municipal and school districts as the only acceptable governmental entities?” “Mandate consolidation..” That all sounds good on paper. The devil, as they say, is in the details.
Comment by Skeptic Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:52 am
==So how are you going to keep services at a level that people expect while eliminating layers of government?==
Even if you keep all the levels of government, services shouldn’t be expected to remain the same. People voted for cuts (and higher taxes) and by god, they’re gonna get them
Comment by Joe Bidenopolous Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 11:02 am
What’s the precinct not yet reporting results in the Martwick race in Illinois Senate District 10? City or Suburbs?
Comment by PublicServant Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 11:53 am
@- Sox Fan - Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:37 am:
>>> Agree, let’s play it out further too. Pritzker loses in two years to Ken Griffin (or his proxy). The republican governor facing off against a dem supermajority (or close to it) refuses to pass a budget that doesn’t include cuts related to “waste, fraud, and abuse” but refuses to identify enough cuts to create a balanced budget. And around and round we go.
Comment by Hieronymus Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 12:01 pm
My reply didn’t make it:
And if it looks like that is likely to happen, bond out the entire pension shortfall and overdue bills, then hand the reins over to the republicans.
Who knows, maybe then they’ll start talking about “debt reform”. /s
Comment by Hieronymus Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 12:02 pm
Sharpie Anonymous was me.
Comment by Keyrock Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 12:23 pm
== If I’m making only $16,000 a year (for instance) does the state of Illinois tax me or do they waive any income tax since Im below poverty level? ==
Yes, they tax you. IL statts with the Federal AGI, subtracts retirement income, tend applies personal exemption(s) and any senior or blind exemption.
It may not be a lot of taxes, but with $16,000 Federral AGI, as a single working person under age 65, you are likely paying IL tax on $13,725 (or less if you can claim a property tax credit) which is about $680 - $690 when you add in the $8 Use ax (on $10+k) which nobody does. A spouse with no income or dependents would lower that tax number some.
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 12:40 pm
Don’t see my earlier comment the GA should immediately pass the needed flat tax increase in the veto session so the voters have 2 years to forget.
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 12:42 pm
@striketoo, PrarieState Sense, Maximus, Flyin’ Elvis’, et. al.:
Wholeheartedly concur.
@- cermak_rd - Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 10:37 am:
>>> striketoo,
the problem is I have heard many people state that the township clears the streets they’re responsible for better than the county and I have personally witnessed some counties that clear the snow and deal with other services far better than the next county over. So how are you going to keep services at a level that people expect while eliminating layers of government? And more importantly, how are you going to sell that idea to people who like the services their current arrangement provides?
Comment by Hieronymus Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 12:50 pm
== And more importantly, how are you going to sell that idea to people who like the services their current arrangement provides? ==
By using the same tricks the Feds do .. withhold any funds you can until they comply.
Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 1:30 pm
So couldn’t they raise the income tax to 8% then give everyone a $1000 non-refundable tax credit out of that? That seems like it would be enough to avoid the tax the penniless side of things. And then use the $ for the pensions? The pensions is only going to be a problem for a little while. Eventually the only people still working for the gov’t will be tier2 then it’s just an actuarial issue.
Comment by cermak_rd Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 2:08 pm
Part of my earlier post got lost. In response to cermak_rd, responding to striketoo’s statement,
==” the problem is I have heard many people state that the township clears the streets they’re responsible for better than the county and I have personally witnessed some counties that clear the snow and deal with other services far better than the next county over. So how are you going to keep services at a level that people expect while eliminating layers of government? And more importantly, how are you going to sell that idea to people who like the services their current arrangement provides? ” ==,
I respond: Force consolidation from above, anyway and let the chips fall where they may. Let the voters hold the remaining county governments responsible for performance.
And, make sure everyone knows that any service cuts are a necessary part of “living within one’s means”.
Comment by Hieronymus Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 2:28 pm
As a lifelong Illinoisan, I can only add that Indiana looks better and better each day. Yes, I’ll be another one fleeing high taxes, high crime, and high political corruption for a solvent state, real prosecutors, and lower overall taxes.
Comment by thisjustinagain Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 3:05 pm
What in the heck happened to Martwick? I thought he was sharper than this. A no name guy might beat him who ran as a law and order Republican.
Comment by regular democrat Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 3:05 pm
Nevermind all the politics–can the Bears win Sunday??
Comment by thisjustinagain Wednesday, Nov 4, 20 @ 3:06 pm