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* Kristen McQueary…
It was a close competition between Indiana and Florida: Which state in 2018 attracted the most Illinois residents for relocation?
Indiana won. Nearly 26,000 Illinois tax filers (including their dependents) moved to Indiana in 2018, new Internal Revenue Service data shows. Out with Chicago-style pizza and beef sandwiches. In with pork tenderloin and sugar cream pie, two Hoosier staples.
But Florida beaches beckoned too. Nearly 24,000 Illinoisans moved to Florida in 2018. Some Indiana residents and Floridians moved to Illinois, mind you, but not enough to make up the difference. Texas was the third most popular destination for Illinoisans, followed by California, Wisconsin, Missouri and Arizona.
What do Indiana and Florida boast that Illinois does not? Lower taxes, well-funded pension systems, balanced budgets and, in Florida’s case, sunshine and ocean views. Who can compete with that? Uncle! Uncle!
14,907 people moved to Illinois from Indiana in the same time period. And 12,128 people moved to Illinois from Florida. So, we’re not total losers.
* But there’s a problem with that, too…
While recently released data from the U.S. Census Bureau revealed Illinois was home to the nation’s worst loss of residents to other states over the decade, new IRS data shows those leaving the state are taking billions of dollars with them.
For tax year 2018, that amounted to a net loss of up to $5.6 billion in adjusted gross income to other states, with each person leaving earning on average $18,000 more per tax return than those who moved to Illinois. […]
The IRS data reveals who is making up the bulk of the exodus from Illinois. Of the 2018 income tax returns that Illinois lost on net, 24,834 (58%) of them were prime working-age Illinoisans between 26-54, as has been the case for the entire decade.
IRS data also shows that while Illinois is losing residents of all income brackets to other states, the Illinoisans departing at the fastest rate on net are higher income earners.
In fact, Illinois is losing people earning more than $200,000 a year at nearly twice the rate of average-income residents, on net.
* More…
Illinois lost $6.8 billion in Adjusted Gross Incomes to net out-migration in 2017 and $5.6 billion in 2018. Illinois’ 2018 loss was the third worst in the country, with only California and New York losing more AGI, $8.0 billion and $9.6 billion, respectively.
The three biggest gainers nationally in 2018 of residents and their incomes were Florida, Arizona and Texas. Florida was the biggest winner by far, gaining a net 115,000 people and $16 billion in AGI. Arizona gained 65,000 people and $3.5 billion in AGI. Texas gained 77,000 people and $3.4 billion in AGI. […]
When measured on per capita basis, only New York lost more AGI than Illinois in 2018. Illinois lost $435 in AGI per person while New York lost $484 per person.
The biggest per capita winners of AGI were Nevada, up $766 per person, Florida, up $762 per person, and Idaho, up $646 per person.
Illinois’ neighbors suffered far smaller AGI losses than Illinois in 2018, ranging from a loss of $145 per person in Iowa to just $52 per person in Missouri. […]
Domestic in-migrants to Illinois earned far less than the Illinois residents who left the state. The average AGI of those who left in 2018 was approximately $85,000, while those who entered the state had incomes of just $66,000.
The wealth gap between residents leaving and coming to Illinois has more than tripled since 2000. In 2000, those moving into Illinois earned on average $5,000 less than those leaving Illinois. In 2018, the gap is now nearly $19,000.
* Related…
* Can Lightfoot expand Chicago’s jobs pie while dividing it differently?: For instance, since the 2009 recession, compound annual growth in regional product here has risen just 1.1 percent a year, tied with Philadelphia for last place and barely half the national 1.8 percent level. Total employment has followed the same track, with Chicago and Philly again tied at 0.5 percent growth a year versus figures such as 1.9 percent in Dallas, 1.8 percent in Denver and 0.8 percent in the nation as a whole. Moody’s expects more of the same, including more population loss. Over the new decade, Chicago is the only one of those metros expected to lose population, projected to be down about 2 percent by 2031, with even New York and Los Angeles showing at least some gain.
posted by Rich Miller
Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:26 am
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Fun with numbers: A higher percentage of Indiana’s population moved to Illinois than vice versa (0.22% vs 0.20%”
Comment by A Well-Regulated Commenter Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:32 am
-In fact, Illinois is losing people earning more than $200,000 a year at nearly twice the rate of average-income residents, on net.-
This is a big problem when you are attempting a progressive income that might hit many of those very people. It might become quite difficult to rely on an oversized proportion of your state budget on a small group of people who might not be around because they don’t want to pay 7.99 %.
Comment by Steve Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:32 am
Us too, Born in Chicago (Austin) in 42 , moved to the burbs in 15 , to Florida in 18 . Not a hard decision. No public pension or any pension so no tax saving there , my hope is that all my fellow Illini in Florida don’t bring their politics South
Comment by Kauaijim Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:34 am
===So, we’re not total losers.===
Yay.
I’m not an expert, but how many of those Illinois taxpayers were already Indiana residents working in Illinois?
Also, 10,000 baby boomers retire every day. Nobody moves to Illinois when they retirement.
So no, we’re not total losers.
Comment by 47th Ward Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:34 am
Its a lot easier for those with greater means to “move”. Many of those better well off already have either a summer home in Indiana or a winter home in Florida. They probably are not actually moving anything except their tax returns and probably spend just as much time in each locations as they did previously.
And for a lot of those that “moved” to Indiana one of reasons they move is because Indiana’s property taxes are brutal if you don’t live there. A simple address change pretty much cuts your property tax in half on that lakefront home.
Comment by Been There Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:40 am
“IRS data also shows that while Illinois is losing residents of all income brackets to other states, the Illinoisans departing at the fastest rate on net are higher income earners”
Wait till Pritzker’S progressive income tax is voted into existence - the exodus will be massive.
Comment by Donnie Elgin Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:40 am
“Save the Wealthy” is a losing message.
=== It might become quite difficult to rely on an oversized proportion of your state budget on a small group of people who might not be around because they don’t want to pay 7.99 %.===
If the progressive income tax fails, *everyone* will be paying 7.99%
That will be the closing argument.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:41 am
Of the 2018 income tax returns that Illinois lost on net, 24,834 (58%) of them were prime working-age Illinoisans between 26-54, as has been the case for the entire decade.
This is the most significant part that has to change. Until we can start to attract young, working people to move back here the decline will continue.
Young working people no longer being here has led to a shortage of needed Volunteers. These are the people who staff Volunteer Fire Dept.’s, Rescue Squads, and in the Community. They are the people who produce the Kids for our schools. Losing them has hit hard and until we bring them back we will continue to slide downward.
Comment by SOIL M Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:43 am
definition of a “hoosier”….a Kentuckian who didn’t make it all the way to Chicago..
Comment by NotRich Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:46 am
== Also, 10,000 baby boomers retire every day. Nobody moves to Illinois when they retirement.==
What I noticed working with seniors is younger retirees want to move to where it’s warm/scenic. Older retirees with health issues and less mobility want to move back to Illinois to be with their families.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:48 am
These data are from the final year of the Rauner administration. I hope this topic will be discussed here when the 2019 data are available, and even more so when the 2020 data are available.
The economic instability created by the Rauner administration for people of all economic means can’t be understated. Heck, the Illinois Budget Impasse has its own Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Budget_Impasse
“The budget impasse has adversely affected Illinois’ economy, its credit rating, and public confidence in Illinois’ state government.”
If you’re staying here, as I am for at least another decade, there are solutions to be had that we all have to work for. They may or may not include smoking and gambling in your own personal approach to righting the ship.
Comment by Lefty Lefty Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:51 am
=== In fact, Illinois is losing people earning more than $200,000 a year at nearly twice the rate of average-income residents, on net. ===
Ouch. Can we get a comment from the Fairness Steering Committee?
Comment by Birdseed Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:53 am
We have the highest outmigration and yet are a flat-tax state. Our state income tax rate was 3% from 2000-2010. Our neighbors with graduated income taxes have not only lower outmigration, but better finances and unemployment rates. That could be said about most every other graduated income tax state.
Comment by Grandson of Man Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:54 am
Older retirees are often encouraged by their families to move back. You can only make so many unexpected trips using your vacation days down south to help your parents before you have to demand they move where you are.
I have no desire to move to Indiana or anywhere actually. I like being where my friends and family are. Now becoming Snowbird is more to my liking.
Comment by thoughts matter Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:56 am
So under Rauner everything was not all roses and sunshine? Because he owns 2018.
Comment by thechampaignlife Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 11:59 am
-In fact, Illinois is losing people earning more than $200,000 a year at nearly twice the rate of average-income residents, on net.-
First, we can’t blame those numbers on a graduated income tax.
Second, the top destination for those making over $100,000 is not a low tax state. The number one destination is the New York City metro area. Second is Houston, followed by Los Angeles, Minneapolis-St Paul, Denver and D.C. Given the high graduated income taxes in NY,CA,MN and DC, it seems unlikely more affluent Illinoisans left because of our state income tax.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 12:00 pm
The message will not be “Save the Wealthy” . The message will be ” Do you really think you will not be paying 7.99% or more when they need more money to pay pensions you aren’t going to get?”
Comment by Steve Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 12:04 pm
=== Do you really think you will not be paying 7.99% or more when they need more money to pay pensions you aren’t going to get?”===
LOL
With. What. Money?
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 12:06 pm
=== Do you really think you will not be paying 7.99% or more when they need more money to pay pensions you aren’t going to get?”===
That’s a bumper, not a bumper sticker
They’re $5 million down already.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 12:09 pm
I have no doubt at least some of this is tax and economy related…but how many of these are retirees moving to Fla and Az?
Comment by High Socks Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 12:14 pm
Definitions change over time . Today’s wealthy might be asked to pay 7.99% , in the future 150K might be defined as wealthy. When words lose their meaning people will lose their freedom as a famous philosopher once said….
Comment by Steve Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 12:35 pm
SOIL M makes a great point about attracting younger working people. I don’t know what the answer is, but I do know that the latest round of the Feds looking into organized corruption is hardly a selling point in trying to attract people to move to Illinois.
Anecdotally, I can offer the examples of my siblings’ spouses. They are both from other states and both see Illinois as thoroughly corrupt and a mismanaged fiscal basket case. There’s no way they’re coming here despite being married to Illinois natives. Of course I’m not sure my siblings want to come back either.
Comment by zim Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 12:36 pm
At the same time, Illinois is currently making itself more and more attractive to younger sections of the tax base. We’re FINALLY investing in our colleges and public universities, Chicago is a great city to be a 20 something in, weed was just legalized, emerging tech industries, progressive politics, ambitious environmental goals, etc.
You can put on your candy pinstripes and move to Indiana if you want. I’ll buy Illinois’ future.
Comment by FotP Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 12:38 pm
=== Today’s wealthy might be asked to pay 7.99% , in the future 150K might…===
The brackets are in place. There is no conjecture.
Taxes can be raised at any time.
The earliest that the rates can be changed where it would make politically possible is 2023, but with a new map, 2025 is more likely.
You used “save the wealthy”, and now an alleged fear.
Pritzker ran on the progressive income tax, won by 16 points.
Pritzker is $5 million in… with that 16 point win, running on that progressive income tax… you’re actually helping with it passing, lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 12:40 pm
There are many reasons people leave the state. Weather, employment opportunity, family are all good reasons, and even taxes. Some may just get tired of hearing how awful their state is.
We’ll have to wait a few years to see if JB can turn the tide. All we know right now is the trend is not our friend.
Comment by SSL Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 12:42 pm
Opted just like “thoughts matter” for the snowbird designation. I have found no matter where you are the state will find a way to get your money. If Illinois could solve the property tax issue, I would think we could be competitive. In AZ the property taxes are low but they get you in sales tax which can be as high as 11.2% combining state and local taxes, plates for car, extra fees at restaurants. There is also a state income tax on pensions on pensions. Uber and Lyft right now are refusing to go to the Phoenix airport due to the high fees. I also think the higher salaries you can earn in Illinois helps to offset for the higher taxes for example the average salary for teachers in AZ is $48000 a year and Illinois it is $66000
Comment by illinifan Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 12:48 pm
=== Illinois’s economic and political problems well, well, predate Rauner.===
lol
… except for that whole 99th General Assembly, 2 fiscal years, without a state budget to purposely hurting Illinois.
I mean, except for that…
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 12:50 pm
It’s disappointing, the rebranding of “Statehouse Chick”
But, if she is still living here and wants to talk bad about this state to keep the Trib folks happy, then why even change your name from “Statehouse Chick”?
It’s repackaged disaster, no matter how she writes it.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 1:18 pm
This is exactly why the US needs to pass the most equity-centric tax in the nation, Elizabeth Warren’s wealth tax. It will raise billions of dollars from only those who can most afford it (net wealth over $50 million) to provide desperately needed tax relief to middle class families feeling the effects of the nation’s stark economic inequality and properly fund social safety net programs.
Comment by Julian C Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 1:18 pm
We were lifelong residents of IL and state employees in 2016. We had several reasons - weather and taxes were obviously two important factors. Dwindling family in Illinois was another. The third was that we hadn’t had any sort of raise in our state wages in about 6 years. No budget and even with some sort of budget we were spinning our wheels economically made it an easy decision. My spouse and I easily could have put in another 10 years with the state but leaving turned out to be no brained when you consider the big picture.
Comment by Stones Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 1:20 pm
-But, if she is still living here and wants to talk bad about this state-
I’ll be more than happy to defend Kristen McQueary. She does an excellent job. She’s a very good writer. Kristen McQueary is very good at pointing out important facts. Kristen McQueary isn’t making up Illinois’ population decline or public pension problem.
Comment by Steve Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 1:24 pm
McQueary? This is who she is.
“In Chicago, wishing for a Hurricane Katrina”
=== “That’s why I find myself praying for a real storm. It’s why I can relate, metaphorically, to the residents of New Orleans climbing onto their rooftops and begging for help and waving their arms and lurching toward rescue helicopters.”===
- Kristen McQueary.
You defend her, you defend this.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 1:30 pm
I want to highlight the problem facing many, especially in downstate illinois, which is high property taxes in conjunction with low or no annual real estate appreciation. To put this problem into context i will provide a hypothetical.
The hypothetical is a central illinois family that buys a $200k home, and lives in it for 30 years. At the end of 30 years, the family will presumably downsize, or sell their house for another reason.
At the time of sale, the house will sell for about $308k (1.5% appreciation). After subtracting the taxes they paid ($172k, and interest $146k, it will have cost the family $10,000 (not including utilities and maintenance) to live in their home.
The average real estate appreciation rate is 3%. At that rate, this same family would have sold their home for $471k, and made $152,000.
The cost of living is not just reflected in the purchase price of a home. The point is that people who own a house in downstate illinois are losing money. If you own a house somewhere else with lower taxes and higher real estate appreciation, the difference can mean hundreds of thousands of dollars in additional income and the difference between a secure retirement or your kids having to support you.
Comment by Merica Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 1:30 pm
I don’t believe the higher income earners are moving to Indiana. That’s malarkey.
Comment by dabears Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 1:34 pm
“In Chicago, wishing for a Hurricane Katrina”
I have to admit , I never saw that. But, I did see the big new news from U-Haul on who’s number 50. The kind of thing that Kristen McQueary notices.
http://myuhaulstory.com/2020/01/06/uhaul-names-top-growth-states-2019-florida-new-1/
Comment by Steve Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 1:35 pm
=== it will have cost the family $10,000 (not including utilities and maintenance) to live in their home===
Beats renting. $10K to live in a home for 30 years vs. $720K to rent.
Comment by thechampaignlife Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 1:37 pm
=== I have to admit , I never saw that.===
Your continued ignorance isn’t at all bliss.
Same column;
=== I find myself wishing for a storm in Chicago — an unpredictable, haughty, devastating swirl of fury. A dramatic levee break. Geysers bursting through manhole covers. A sleeping city, forced onto the rooftops.
That’s what it took to hit the reset button in New Orleans. Chaos. Tragedy. Heartbreak===
Yeah, she cheered.
Learn before typing.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 1:39 pm
=== I did see the big new news from U-Haul on who’s number 50. The kind of thing that Kristen McQueary notices.===
Simpletons are going to simpleton.
No need to respond back. I fed you, your ignorance here is enough trolling.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 1:41 pm
If the number 4 state is CA, then it must be weather, not taxes. All the non-neighboring states all have warmer winter climates (yes, CA hosted the 1960 Winter Olympics, but that was 400 miles north of LA).
Comment by Anyone Remember Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 1:47 pm
“The point is that people who own a house in downstate illinois are losing money.” You know, they aren’t just flushing that money down the toilet. They get services, like toilets, and schools and roads and trash collection and … and … They’re not “losing” anything.
Comment by Skeptic Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 1:49 pm
===I don’t believe the higher income earners are moving to Indiana. That’s malarkey.=====
It’s a small area but Long Beach Indiana has plenty. But as I said most decide to “move” to their summer places to cut their Indiana property tax to about half.
Comment by Been There Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 1:58 pm
Oswego- good to see you never get tired of defending the indefensible
Comment by Sue Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 2:07 pm
- Sue -
Make an argument. I’m not the argument.
Thanks.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 2:11 pm
- Sue -
There appears to be a Mike McClain wing of the GOP in Illinois.
Comment by Steve Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 2:11 pm
Do not feed the trolls.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 2:14 pm
==The point is that people who own a house in downstate illinois are losing money.==
Hence their retirements are diminished and impaired.
Comment by City Zen Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 2:17 pm
“Hence their retirements are diminished and impaired.” So you’re suggesting that losing money on a house should be unconstitutional? Your argument makes no sense.
Comment by Skeptic Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 2:43 pm
The argument is rather then use tax revenue to pay down our sizable debt - JB and his Dem enablers decided to go full hog on new social spending. There will never be enough revenue for these spending hogs
Comment by Sue Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 2:43 pm
Illinifan is right. No matter where you are there will be taxes–some higher than here, some lower–but the state will get it from you one way or another. THe progressive state taxes of some states around us would horrify some people, but those states have lower property taxes. Take your pick. I do know that you won’t earn the kind of money in those states that you do here, and you won’t see as varied and abundant job/career opportunities there. So, take your pick. There is no super cheap place to live. If there were, everyone would be there.
Comment by Anonymous Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:04 pm
Anonymous- you are smoking all of that new legal weed. You think the career opportunities in Atlanta, Dallas, Seattle , the North Carolina Triangle, Nashville are not as good as here then you are just uninformed. The rest of the country for the most part have increasing real estate values and better employment. Anyone who bought a house in Illinois since 2009 is losing money. Look- all of you folks who love what the Dems are doing should at least be honest with yourselves- Illinois is a sinking ship
Comment by Sue Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:11 pm
There’s not enough fortitude in the GA to get anything done to really address this. There’s decades of history to prove that out. Even with the Census/IRS data, there will be enough apologists left to say it’s solely a revenue problem and ignore everything that has created the revenue problem. It’s embarrassing that we can’t solve problems here because everything is hyper-politicized. The draft property tax report is an absolute joke. It won’t do, not does it do anything meaningful to fix the system. In fact, there are elements that would take locals backwards.
Comment by Shemp Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:13 pm
The next big storm Illinois will face will be a recession.
Comment by chichi55 Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:15 pm
To add to what TCF and Skeptic were saying, 10K over 30 years comes out to $28 dollars a month for clean water, good schools, and ready access to members of the police and fire departments.
Comment by Jocko Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:16 pm
=Of the 2018 income tax returns that Illinois lost on net, 24,834 (58%) of them were prime working-age Illinoisans between 26-54, as has been the case for the entire decade.=
“Working-age” is too broad a description. Are they skilled, employed, unemployed, etc.? Seems like an awful lot of skilled young people are moving into the city.
Comment by TinyDancer(FKASue) Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:28 pm
== After subtracting the taxes they paid ($172k, and interest $146k, it will have cost the family $10,000.==
Why are you subtracting the property taxes? This taxes are the cost of services received, snow plowing and street maintenance and police and fire. That’s not part of the actual house.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:29 pm
The significant other and I both work for the public sector here in Illinois.
If the significant other and I leave Illinois for other public sector employment we’ll be seeing a significant increase in pay if our job types and duties remain the same.
If we transition to the private sector, it will be an even bigger pay bump.
It’s not salary that’s keeping us here — but it might be salary that makes us go.
It also might be K-12 education which across the board isn’t as good as it could be.
It might also be costs of tuition.
It might also be the general lack of willingness of the public being willing to pay for the services they want, or even the services you received 30 years ago without paying the pension costs for it.
But the fact of the matter is that if people are moving from the state to seek a promotion it’s not an indication of the failure of the state to remain attractive.
People, especially those under 40, have to move for opportunities.
Folks that are in higher income positions definitely have to move for opportunities.
People aren’t crossing state lines to take a job at that new fancy Culver’s or Freddy’s.
So the validity of that data matters.
It’s just baffling to see folks that just participated in a three year long all out assault on the institutions we depend on pretend like that doesn’t have long term consequences.
Y’all need to quit pushing people to the door by failing to invest in public goods like education and services and then pretending like they’re leaving because the taxes are too high.
Maybe I would like to move to a state that understands if you cut the funding of DCFS in half over the course of 20 years you’re going to wind up with kids dead rather than hang out here and wait for folks to realize they need to pay taxes for the services they want.
Comment by Candy Dogood Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:30 pm
==downstate illinois [has] low or no annual real estate appreciation==
As everyone knows, real estate is dependent on location. In some downstate areas this is true but in others (not very far away) appreciation is much greater or much less. It just depends. The same is true for other parts of the state and nation. That’s why you should never buy a home as an investment and value you it as such, especially if your children received a public school education in the period of time when you lived in the slowly appreciating home.
Comment by Ronny the Realtor Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:31 pm
==Why are you subtracting the property taxes?==
Property taxes are also deductible on your Federal taxes.
Comment by Ronny the Realtor Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:34 pm
=Illinois is losing people earning more than $200,000 a year at nearly twice the rate of average-income residents, on net.=
But, who are they? Are they higher earning older residents nearing retirement?
Comment by TinyDancer(FKASue) Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:34 pm
===…wing of the GOP===
Be careful linking McClain to folks. Just saying.
If you can’t make an argument, don’t argue like you’re on Facebook.
=== JB and his Dem enablers decided to go full hog on new social spending. There will never be enough revenue for these spending hogs===
I’m going to wait and watch how any *new* revenue is being used, in hopes it’s used to pay down debt. That’s the fiscally prudent thing to do.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:37 pm
I did a quick check and despite all these dire stats the Chicago metro area (including collar counties) population is still on a growth trajectory, albeit not at amazing rates. A couple of downstate communities like Bloomington/Normal and Champaign/Urbana are experiencing a slight population growth but admittedly it is slowing. Having said that it’s quite clear the rural, downstate areas are where a lot of the loss is taking place. I appreciate stats about the state but we can’t look at the entire state as a monolith; some areas are struggling while others are bucking the trend.
Comment by BNRunner Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:56 pm
Oswego- dollars are fungible. JB has in fact added to spending since January 2019 yes or no
Comment by Sue Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:56 pm
==So you’re suggesting that losing money on a house should be unconstitutional?==
Are you suggesting that losing money on a house doesn’t diminish or impair a working family’s ability to retire?
Comment by City Zen Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:57 pm
“Anyone who bought a house in Illinois since 2009 is losing money.”
Fun with numbers.
1) Why 2009? Is there a reason why that year, or was it just chosen so that your point is true? I could say “No one has won the World Series more times in a row than the Cubs since 2000.” True, but meaningless.
2) How do you define “losing money?”
a) The appraised value of the home went down? That’s not a tax issue.
b) They owe more than the home is worth? Again, not a tax issue.
You can buy a house, sell it for more than you paid (including interest) and still “lose money” if the gain doesn’t keep up with inflation. And I’d be willing to bet that most anyone who bought their home with a mortgage could say they’ve “lost money.”
Comment by Skeptic Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:58 pm
=== JB has in fact added to spending since January 2019===
A budget and a Capitol program were both passed and signed.
If anything, the General Assembly authorized the spending and along with the Governor, concur its a constitutional budget, revenues and spending.
So what’s your point? lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 3:59 pm
==Property taxes are also deductible on your Federal taxes.==
Yes they are deductible and so are IRA contributions and daycare and medical expenses and gambling losses. Merica is saying that property taxes should be deducted from the increased worth of the house and I am asking why.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 4:00 pm
=== Are you suggesting that losing money on a house…===
Houses, like all investments are not guaranteed to increase in value.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 4:01 pm
===Houses, like all investments are not guaranteed to increase in value.===
Hard to find a buyer for an expensive house when the next couple of generations of home buyers are saddled with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt from paying for a greater share of their college expenses than the generation before them.
Comment by Candy Dogood Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 4:15 pm
=== Hard to find a buyer for an expensive house when the next couple of generations of home buyers are saddled with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt from paying for a greater share of their college expenses than the generation before them.===
This is another reason college grads are the buying starter homes, renting is their option, avd then they choose urban areas, leaving suburbia with fewer buyers…
It’s all wrapped together.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 4:25 pm
it makes sense to deduct real estate taxes because they are part of the cost of occupancy. it’s also standard practice to
use property taxes as a metric in commercial real estate management.
we are comparing different regions to one another. while property taxes are in part used to pay for services that are consumed by the homeowner, the cost of those services vary.
people in virginia, and washington, and california also get public education, paved roads, police and fire, but they pay much less for those services,
central illinois residents pay more (based on the taxes assessed as a percentage of home value) for schools, police and fire than city of chicago residents.
Comment by Merica Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 4:28 pm
==Houses, like all investments are not guaranteed to increase in value.==
Still diminished, no?
Comment by City Zen Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 4:35 pm
=== Still diminished, no?===
Huh?
lol
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 4:40 pm
==the cost of those services vary.==
I get all that. But it still is the cost of services received and/or consumed. It isn’t the cost of a house.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 4:52 pm
=The point is that people who own a house in downstate illinois are a losing money.=
A house is not an investment.
It’s a place to live.
Comment by TinyDancer(FKASue) Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 5:00 pm
Oswego- maybe you would prefer that everything just be free. I am beginning to seriously despise your statements
Comment by Sue Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 5:19 pm
=== maybe you would prefer that everything just be free===
LOL, it’s a budget. A passed budget, revenues and expenses.
You despise my comments because you don’t like reading about… budgets.
These additional revenues are outside the budgeted expectations.
It’s not free, it’s a budget.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 5:23 pm
=Oswego- maybe you would prefer that everything just be free.=
We lived through 4 years of “starving the beast.” It was rejected by historic proportions.
Good to know that your definition of governing is to simply not pay for things. Pritzker was elected to do the things his predecessor refused to do. Looks like he’s keeping his promise.
Comment by Pundent Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 6:07 pm
OW- I was referring to your student debt comment not anything relating to the State Budget- having paid full boat tuition for my kids I already subsidize enough school costs for people I don’t know. If you and your ilk want to be volunteers go for it. For me- spending 89 K a year in State income and real estate taxes for which the bulk goes to wasted spending- I don’t relish spending anymore to float JB’s social programs
Comment by Sue Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 7:49 pm
- Sue -
LOL
I’m not a cloud, go on your porch and yell at clouds.
:)
=== If you and your ilk===
People who understand how a budget, and the budget process, including revenues and expenditures, work?
Yikes, please stop, for your own sake, before more clouds appear and there’s a need to blame me for them.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 7:52 pm
=== having paid full boat tuition for my kids===
How many folks do you think can do that, given the costs of college?
Your kids got the “family scholarship”, others get scholarships or take loans. Does this make your kids better?
In the end, student debt *is* preventing home ownership.
Comment by Oswego Willy Tuesday, Jan 7, 20 @ 7:57 pm
== JB and his Dem enablers decided to go full hog on new social spending. There will never be enough revenue for these spending hogs.==
Let’s look at some of that extra spending.
There is more money to hire IL state police cadets: more police equals less crime. And crime has its own cost. Ex CHICAGO police superintendent Garry McCarthy said each murder costs $5 million and each shooting costs $1 million. https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20130513/bridgeport/top-cop-each-murder-costs-city-5-million-every-shooting-costs-1-million.
Added MAP grants to poor students. If they graduate college they can earn more money and pay more in taxes.
Pay increase for the GA and Senate. You might have a point there. But if the pay is low who will want the job?
Increase pay for home health providers. Home health providers earn near minimum wage and if they walk away from their jobs for better paying jobs who is going to look after their elderly clients?
More Medicaid money to nursing homes. So many nursing homes are losing money and going out of business we had to do something.
Addiction programs. Don’t you want addicts to quit their addictions and be functioning members of society?
Tax credits for businesses. This was a olive branch to the Republicans in the GA and Senate. I’m not a big fan of corporate welfare but some argue it pays for itself by the extra workers paying taxes.
While researching this I also noticed Illinois Policy Institute decrying the loss in social service spending down 30% from 20 years ago. So does this budget recover some of that lost 30%? I know sometimes IPI numbers are sometimes squirrelly.
Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Wednesday, Jan 8, 20 @ 8:17 am