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McClain attempted to boot Caprara

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* Tina Sfondeles FOIA’d all the administration’s correspondence with Speaker Madigan’s former consigliere Mike McClain. The story is an accurate reflection of events and emotions that have been kept strictly off the record until now and is therefore a must-read

Two weeks before Anne Caprara stepped into one of the highest profile political roles of her life, she got a call from Gov. J.B. Pritzker with some uncomfortable news.

Pritzker sounded upset, according to a high-level source close to the governor. He said people were “trashing” Caprara to several others, including reporters, in an attempt to squash her appointment as Pritzker’s chief of staff.

Before running Pritzker’s gubernatorial campaign, the Philadelphia native ran Hillary Clinton’s 2016 super PAC and also served as chief of staff to two U.S. congresswomen.

But Caprara wasn’t good enough to serve as the governor’s chief of staff, and she wasn’t from Illinois — a huge no-no, perhaps because she wasn’t beholden to the old boys network of Illinois politics, people were told.

The governor told Caprara he wouldn’t stand for it — and he called it sexist.

So Caprara got the job. And she later learned the effort to trash her was being led by Mike McClain, a Springfield insider and confidant to Illinois House Speaker Mike Madigan.

Go read the whole thing.

Caprara guided Pritzker to a 20-point primary win and a 16-point general election win. He loves her and respects her to no end. The folks who were trying to stop her from being chief were the same people (all allied with MJM) who trashed her during the primary and the general. They completely failed to read the room.

* Also, this was pretty funny…


I’d like to thank @TinaSfon for making #LesbianUnicorn the word of the day.

— Joanna Klonsky (@joannaklonsky) December 16, 2019

Again, go read the whole thing.

posted by Rich Miller
Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 9:37 am

Comments

  1. Tinas top notch and the piece is well done. But it strikes me as odd AC wasn’t asked for comment or was & it’s not mentioned here.

    Comment by Not for Nothing Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 9:42 am

  2. “I don’t think Mike ever wanted a man who wasn’t a white Irish man”

    When will the women of the House Democrat caucus realize they are being played and patronized by Madigan and his crew? Conroy, Hurley, Gabel, Manley, Moeller please break your silence and take a stand against Madigan. He rolled us on #MeToo and continues in his 1955 Mad Men ways. Enough.

    Comment by Flat Bed Ford Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 9:47 am

  3. Madigan should have been gone ten years ago and this piece makes it clearer than ever.

    And everyone knows the only reason MJM runs women is because he thinks they perform better electorally. His staff has told people that for 15+ years now.

    Comment by K3 Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 9:51 am

  4. Illinois politics is an old boys club, but there are plenty of women who have managed to kick and claw their way into the fold and often find themselves the only one or few in the room. These women often have to play the game a bit different, because it takes a lot to maintain your own beliefs and values while also navigating that boys’ club.

    Caprara is one of those rare women who not only knows how to play the game, but also knows how to make it clear she isn’t going to let it impact the way she wants to do business. She may have walked into the job with less state experience than others, but she hasn’t let that stop her or the Governor. The naysayers have an opportunity to admit they were wrong and get onboard or they can go away.

    It looks like Caprara gave him many chances - most men would have given him only one - and then quietly let him move on and away from any influence. That shows more leadership and ability to play the game than most in the business.

    Comment by GirlsClub Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 9:54 am

  5. Flat Bed Ford — did you read the article? No where in it does it say these were MADIGAN’S ideas or recommendations.

    Why do you think it’s ok to criticize and call out the women’s caucus for Mike McClain’s actions? Do you somehow think they had anything to do with it? Many on this blog seem to think they’re the latest punching bag and somehow should be the moral police.

    Comment by GirlsClub Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 9:56 am

  6. === “I don’t think Mike ever wanted a man who wasn’t a white Irish man” ===

    McClain almost certainly had someone else in Pritzker’s inner circle in mind for the job, none of whom were white Irish men.

    It is the only logical explanation.

    I think we can all guess who.

    Comment by Mr Spock Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 9:57 am

  7. =I know McClain likes to present things as he was speaking for the speaker, but I’m genuinely confused as to whether it was him acting on his own or him feeling he had the go ahead=

    This is how many of those in the inner circle operate. Fist bump to Ms. Caprara for zeroing in on the smoke and mirrors, glad she is the COS.

    Comment by Davos Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 9:58 am

  8. ===It is the only logical explanation===

    Nope.

    Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 9:58 am

  9. ==When will the women of the House Democrat caucus realize they are being played and patronized by Madigan and his crew? ==
    From the article: “questions remain as to whether McClain — one of Madigan’s most trusted advisers — is acting on behalf of the speaker or on his own. Those in the governor’s office saw no outward indications McClain was acting on the speaker’s behalf, but they were skeptical. For her part, Caprara felt the speaker would come to her if he had an issue, the source said.”
    I agree with Caprara. Until we know otherwise we should treat McClain’s actions as McClain’s actions alone.

    Comment by 17% Solution Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 10:02 am

  10. “Questions remain as to whether McClain - one of Madigan’s most trusted advisers - is acting on behalf of the Speaker or on his own”

    “The family had a lot of buffers”

    Comment by FormerILLobster Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 10:14 am

  11. McClain and Madigan are very close and communicate often. It nonsensical to think the Speaker wasn’t aware of McClain’s play. The order may not have come from Madigan directly but one would think he was complicit at best.

    Comment by Cubs in '16 Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 10:16 am

  12. It seems buried in the story under the Caprara news. But this story unearthed emails that show McClain was still actively lobbying on marijuana, capital, and gaming right up until the May raid on his home even though he was not a registered lobbyist anymore.

    Add that to the fact he was still being paid a princely sum from ComEd post “retirement,” and you have to wonder who else was paying him to continue lobbying in his faux retirement?

    Comment by ILPundit Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 10:19 am

  13. It was nice that Pritzker protected Caprara. Also shows that Pritzker isn’t going to be pushed around.

    Comment by Huh? Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 10:20 am

  14. A Governor acting like a governor. Refreshing

    Comment by Drake Mallard Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 10:25 am

  15. The Feds have the wiretaps. However Until they charge him, or interview him and put him in jeopardy of lying to a federal agent, McClain is just a person of interest.

    Comment by Donnie Elgin Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 10:26 am

  16. — - Cubs in ‘16 - Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 10:16 am:

    McClain and Madigan are very close and communicate often. It nonsensical to think the Speaker wasn’t aware of McClain’s play —

    How do you know? My crazy uncle Larry calls and emails me often but I don’t necessary know everything he’s doing. I think it’s funny you assume someone like McClain has no mind or agenda of his own.

    Comment by Facts Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 10:33 am

  17. For commenters speculating on Madigan’s views about women:

    He appointed the first female majority leader. She served for two decades in that role.

    He did everything possible to help his daughter become the first woman to hold the office of Illinois Attorney General.

    50% of the members of his leadership team are women.

    37 member of the House Dem caucus are women; that’s 50%. Eight of 44 House Republicans are women (18%).

    His chief of staff is a woman.

    His wife is the head of the Illinois Arts Council.

    He has three daughters and three granddaughters.

    The idea that the Speaker is anti-woman or doesn’t want to see women succeed is not true.

    It’s fair to say that #MeToo related issues were not well handled. It’s also fair to ask if significant steps were taken in the aftermath to make sure they never happen again. I’d say they were. And, also fair to say that Speaker haters will never be satisfied.

    Comment by Moe Berg Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 10:42 am

  18. I’m so tired of the get my person in place so the lobbying is transparent school of politics. go away.

    Comment by Amalia Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 10:45 am

  19. @Facts

    I think it’s equally funny you believe McClain could’ve taken an action like this without Madigan’s input. We’re talking about the governor’s COS, not what to order for lunch. Glad we both got a good laugh to start off our week. :)

    Comment by Cubs in '16 Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 10:46 am

  20. A CYA story to cover for all the help team MJM gave to Pritzker during the campaign. Has J.B. admitted to dining with Magoo in Quincy in 2017? Has Ann come clean on her almost daily conversations with other MJM senior consultants/lobbyists? The same people being paid by ComEc, Ameren and gaming?
    The whole truth will come out
    The combine tarnishes everyone

    Comment by Anon Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 10:54 am

  21. I am sure we can expect a strongly worded op ed about this outrage from Kelly Cassidy in the Chicago Tribune soon

    Comment by Lucky Pierre Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 11:02 am

  22. There’s no doubt Caprera is qualified to be chief of staff. Having it publicly known that you’ll be blackballed for questioning that viewpoint is not necessarily a good look for the Governor.

    Comment by Rasta Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 11:04 am

  23. ==Has Ann come clean on her almost daily conversations with other MJM senior consultants/lobbyists?==

    Wow. I’m trying to understand how Ms. Caprara could do her job without talking to any of the consultants/lobbyists in the Capitol.

    My take-away from the story is that McLain had lost much of his shine and wasn’t being taken as seriously as he had been in the past. Many (most?) of his 2018-2019 efforts did not fare well (personnel and legislative). It doesn’t look like the Speaker and McLain were working from the same playbook anymore.

    Comment by Pot calling kettle Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 11:06 am

  24. ===Having it publicly known that you’ll be blackballed for questioning that viewpoint is not necessarily a good look for the Governor===

    Don’t argue like a child.

    This wasn’t about questioning her abilities. I’ve done that. This is about an active attempt to prevent her from being named chief.

    Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 11:09 am

  25. I’m not doubting the veracity of anything in the report, particularly the idea of there being big resistance to an outsider like Caprara in the COS job. As Rich points out, that sentiment was no secret at the time. But am I the only one who found this story to be a little too convenient for the governor’s office? It’s not every day that a political reporter builds a story around an anonymous administration source who provides nothing but laudatory inside info about the administration. Every elected official should be so lucky.

    What’s more, the details unveiled in the McClain emails are so positive for the administration, if they didn’t steer the reporter to filing a FOIA, they certainly should have. (And by the way, didn’t the Sun-Times kinda bury the lede? The “I’m retired, sort of” line from McClain was the newsiest part of the FOIA.)

    Call me a cynic, but this feels like either an effort by the reporter to curry favor with a potential source in the administration (reminiscent of Fran Speilman’s early Daley coverage,) or a well-crafted preemptive strike by the administration to inoculate themselves from a not so positive story that might be in their future regarding McClain. You gotta hand it to Caprara and Team JB, they know how to play this game.

    Comment by PR hack Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 11:09 am

  26. Perhaps, just perhaps, McClain was doing the bidding of another highly influential, well-known Pritzker supporter who wanted their person in the COS position.

    Comment by Medvale School for the Gifted Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 11:15 am

  27. ===well-known Pritzker supporter who wanted their person in the COS position===

    I do not know the answer to that, but it may be a pretty good guess.

    Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 11:20 am

  28. === This wasn’t about questioning her abilities. I’ve done that. This is about an active attempt to prevent her from being named chief.===

    This is the whole ball game. It’s not hurt feelings or the honest questioning of someone taking the reigns of an administration for a novice elected, by someone outside the state, both are now going to try to steer in governance. Big difference, and this…

    === The naysayers have an opportunity to admit they were wrong and get onboard or they can go away.===

    That, while seemingly very supportive, kinda runs against the good work and the accomplishments of Ms. Caprara, and this administration, frankly, and how they cobble, build, and push through things with support brought on, not push aside “unless you’re onboard.”

    To this post, and all “that”,

    I’ve respected Gov. Pritzker’s loyalty, and at each and every turn, Pritzker has been rewarded in that loyalty with Caprara, on the campaign trail, twice, and in the governing of this first year. Choosing to derail that, purposely, and with reason(s) outside her own able skills is another look-see into what McClain, in retirement, found to be a pressing thing to do. Now we’ll see if any speculation has a road, or just an interesting side note to McClain’s own things.

    Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 11:22 am

  29. == or a well-crafted preemptive strike by the administration to inoculate themselves from a not so positive story that might be in their future regarding McClain.==
    So they get McClain to attack Caprara so that the administration looks good?
    Wow, they know must know Jedi mind tricks.

    Comment by 17% Solution Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 11:24 am

  30. It’s nice to hear a story that demonstrates that our governor possesses independence, character and integrity.

    I am proud to serve this administration.

    Comment by Merica Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 11:44 am

  31. @ 17% Solution

    Here’s the possible scenario: The administration has in their possession emails from McClain making some suggestions to them, none of which were acted on. They also have widely known anecdotal evidence that McClain and other insiders were trashing Caprara and the idea of her being chief of staff. They package both together and present it to a reporter as proof that Mike McClain is now and has always been on bad paper with the Pritzker administration.

    No Jedi mind tricks there, just solid political communications work.

    Comment by PR hack Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 11:59 am

  32. One of the common themes here with all the ‘Madigan Guy’ stuff is that there is nothing that says ‘Madigan did this’ or ‘Madigan was behind this,’ etc.

    So if a ‘Madigan guy’ asks for something or works on something, do you always assume that is only in the pursuit of interests and desires of the ‘Madigan guy’ but not Madigan himself?

    . Then what advantage is there in being a ‘Madigan guy’ if not the perception of the value and ‘force’ of Madigan. It seems illogical based on the opinion of Madigan that being a Madigan guy is just based on your ability to influence Madigan.

    To borrow a line from the Godfather, are there buffers? If there are, how do you determine when buffering is occurring vs. freelancing?

    Comment by OneMan Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 12:03 pm

  33. If McClain was attempting to knock Caprara out of the lead and jockey and outsider into the top spot, that was a pretty naive move. He didn’t just misread the room, he misread history.

    Comment by Mr Spock Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 12:12 pm

  34. “Here’s the possible scenario: The administration has in their possession emails from McClain making some suggestions to them, none of which were acted on. They also have widely known anecdotal evidence that McClain and other insiders were trashing Caprara and the idea of her being chief of staff. They package both together and present it to a reporter as proof that Mike McClain is now and has always been on bad paper with the Pritzker administration.”

    You seem to have forgotten the following:

    By May 1, Caprara had seen and heard enough to warrant a stern warning at a senior staff meeting: No one is allowed to communicate with McClain, and none of his clients “may come into this office,” the source said.

    “It was a very clear directive about just how little access McClain had to the governor’s staff,” a second source close to the governor said.

    If you deny that the meeting took place, please give us any evidence supporting your denial.

    If you don’t deny that the meeting took place, please explain how that directive could mean anything other than “Mike McClain is on bad paper with the Pritzker administration.”

    – MrJM

    Comment by @misterjayem Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 12:15 pm

  35. Meh. Seems like the Pritzker team wants to get out in front of some other McClain influence story by cooperating on this on by the S-T.

    Comment by Fiona FOIA Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 12:28 pm

  36. @MrJM

    I think you’re missing my point, or maybe I’m making it poorly. (Did you read my initial post?) I think McClain is on bad paper with the Pritzker administration, or at least significant portions of it, like his COS. I’m just curious about the origin of the Sun-Times story. Did the reporter simply file a FOIA about McClain, which led to an an incredibly complimentary story about the administration? Or did the administration package and leak the story for the obvious reason (to simply look good,) or for a less obvious reason (to inoculate itself from future McClain issues.) I don’t know the answer, but the cynic in me says it’s the latter.

    Comment by PR hack Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 12:59 pm

  37. How much of McClain’s animus was sheer jealousy that a woman of Caprara’s age was going to be pulling down an unexpectedly large salary?

    Comment by Soccermom Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 1:25 pm

  38. MrJM - you know I love you, but challenging someone to prove a negative is just mean.

    Comment by Soccermom Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 1:26 pm

  39. 1) Journalist FOIA’d all the administration’s correspondence with McClain (as a journalists will do when people are raided by the feds),
    2) Journalist finds McClain on bad paper with the administration,
    3) Journalist writes that story.

    Where’s the mystery?

    – MrJM

    Comment by @misterjayem Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 1:27 pm

  40. So if McClain was trying to prevent Caprara from becoming COS, was there someone else that he (and anyone on whose behalf he *may* have been acting) wanted in that position? The most interesting question is why he would work so hard against her appointment. The story makes it seem like perhaps simple chauvinism, but there has to be more to it. Certainly the state party supported Pritzker’s candidacy, but when you look at the relationship between past Democrat governors’ top staff and Democrat legislative leadership, it has not always been a warm and cozy love fest. Wonder what about Caprara would make McClain so uneasy?

    Comment by Wondering aloud Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 1:28 pm

  41. ===Conroy, Hurley, Gabel, Manley, Moeller please break your silence and take a stand against Madigan===

    Bruce? Is that you?

    Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 1:30 pm

  42. ===but the cynic in me says it’s the latter===

    Not everybody’s a hack.

    Tina FOIA’d the docs out of legit curiosity because the governor said he never spoke to McClain on the phone after we found out about the wiretaps. And then she wrote an accurate story.

    Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 1:41 pm

  43. Hey Rich — it’s pretty cool that Bruce is still reading the blog.

    Comment by Soccermom Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 1:41 pm

  44. More seriously, Rich — it’s not hack work to file a FOIA based on a tip. In this case, it sounds like she did this on her own, but I wouldn’t be horrified to learn she has good sources in the Administration. That’s part of her job description.

    Comment by Soccermom Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 1:46 pm

  45. While I am sure there is more to the background here, it is fairly consistent with the rumor mill at the time. Although, I would be curious to know who McClain wanted instead of Capara. It was likely a JB person with actual IL ties… not sure based on his current senior staff who that would be though.

    Comment by Centennial Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 1:53 pm

  46. ===not sure based on his current senior staff who that would be though===

    Yeah, because Mike had a ton of friends among JB’s current senior staff. /s

    You’re looking at this all wrong. He thought he knew better than JB. He didn’t want JB making the mistakes of some predecessors. But he failed to take into account AC’s abilities and her connection to the governor. It’s like telling a surfer that the sea is a bad thing. Not gonna happen.

    Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 1:57 pm

  47. I guess the point here is — what on earth made McClain think he had the juice to do this?

    On just one day of my life, I would like to enjoy the supreme self-confidence of an average white man…

    Comment by Soccermom Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 2:09 pm

  48. ==You’re looking at this all wrong. He thought he knew better than JB. He didn’t want JB making the mistakes of some predecessors.==

    I would be curious if anyone knows if this was typical on the part of McClain? Did he have a history of trying to insert himself in staff selection with previous governors? Was there a previous appointment that, in his opinion, was especially bad? I can definitely get that he thought he knows more than the Governor, but would he make a point to mobilize a whisper campaign? Legitimately curious.

    Comment by Wondering aloud Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 2:15 pm

  49. ===what on earth made McClain think he had the juice to do this? ===

    Because he was Mike McClain.

    Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 2:16 pm

  50. ===but would he make a point to mobilize a whisper campaign?===

    You’re saying he wouldn’t?

    Comment by Rich Miller Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 2:17 pm

  51. There is a lot of into in this story that did not come from a FOIA. Tina is a great reporter. The Pritzker team gave her a lot of extra dots and helped connect them into a story.

    Comment by Charlie Brown Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 2:19 pm

  52. ==You’re saying he wouldn’t?== No, not at all. Just wondering if that was how he normally operates. Does he typically use his clout to insert himself in things, or was the reaction to her appointment out of the norm.

    Comment by Wondering aloud Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 2:21 pm

  53. ==“The family had a lot of buffers”==

    Fredo: “He said there was something in it for me…on my own.”

    Comment by Bigtwich Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 2:23 pm

  54. === The Pritzker team gave her a lot of extra dots and helped connect them into a story.===

    Example?

    Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 2:25 pm

  55. I think the real story is the other wing of Pritzker’s campaign apparatus and their
    sense of entitlement to the spoils.

    There were articles of other people that had been considered for the COS staff role. And you can imagine those were part of this same effort.

    There were a lot of people who put in a lit of work and, ahem, labor, to get this guy in office. And I think they wanted their “guys” in important spots.

    Comment by Ok Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 2:25 pm

  56. == Example? ==

    Probably shouldn’t answer for @Charlie Brown, but putting Tina on the phone with the “high level source close to the governor” to tell the story about the Caprara trashing would be one of the “dots.”

    Comment by Tony Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 2:40 pm

  57. “He thought he knew better than JB”

    I am sure you are right about that. I was more curious as to who he was planning to “recommend” for the COS position, if AC didn’t get it. Lord knows he had someone (or a couple someones) in mind.

    Comment by Centennial Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 2:46 pm

  58. =how do you determine when buffering is occurring vs. freelancing?=’

    The same question is being asked about Rudy Giuliani. It preserves that deniability.

    Comment by James Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 2:51 pm

  59. === Tina on the phone with the “high level source close to the governor” to tell the story about the Caprara trashing would be one of the “dots.”===

    Here i am looking for a lil “story” of something and you go and take that away, lol

    :)

    Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 2:59 pm

  60. putting Tina on the phone with the “high level source close to the governor” to tell the story about the Caprara trashing would be one of the “dots.”

    Phones dial both ways and Tina has everybody of significance’s number.

    It’s literally how journalists work a story.

    – MrJM

    Comment by @misterjayem Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 3:07 pm

  61. This…

    === Tina on the phone with the “high level source close to the governor” to tell the story about the Caprara trashing would be one of the “dots.”===

    … is this…

    ===It’s literally how journalists work a story.===

    It’s not nefarious or some oddly concocted story of a secret.

    This idea that there’s this undercurrent, the reality is this wasn’t public to the discussion until now, and pretending this is new to these few hours is also not honest to the history.

    Comment by Oswego Willy Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 4:01 pm

  62. Times, they are a changing. No more McClain, no more McPike, ComEd off their high horse, looks like change is here to stay for awhile.

    Comment by nadia Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 4:23 pm

  63. ==[McClain] thought he knew better than JB. He didn’t want JB making the mistakes of some predecessors. But he failed to take into account AC’s abilities and her connection to the governor.== I agreed. I don’t think it was chauvinism (although I may be giving McClain too much credit there). I think it was the we don’t want nobody no one sent mindset combined with thinking he had some sort of say in the COS selection.

    Comment by SAP Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 4:40 pm

  64. “I don’t think it was chauvinism *** I think it was the we don’t want nobody no one sent mindset”

    Decades of systemic chauvinism is one of the primary reasons why women candidates for political positions are so often nobody nobody sent.

    – MrJM

    Comment by @misterjayem Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 5:02 pm

  65. MrJM @ 5:02: Fair point.

    Comment by SAP Monday, Dec 16, 19 @ 5:25 pm

  66. == Decades of systemic chauvinism is one of the primary reasons why women candidates for political positions are so often nobody nobody sent. ==

    Disagree. Everything isn’t always about chauvinism. Women with few if any connections are simply more electable, particularly when running against men with legislative records.

    Comment by Facts Tuesday, Dec 17, 19 @ 7:29 am

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