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The battle begins

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* Capitol News Illinois…

State Sen. Don Harmon, an Oak Park Democrat who is carrying the [progressive income tax] amendment in the Senate, said he expects the Legislature to begin its role in the process soon – and he expects a fight.

“I’m hoping to start talking about this in earnest when we’re back in Springfield next week,” Harmon said. “This is certainly going to require a full-fledged campaign to convince voters to ratify the amendment. I expect we’ll be joined on both sides of the debate with vigor and resources.”

* WEEK TV…

Illinois House Republicans are signing on to a resolution opposing a graduated income tax in Illinois.

Democratic Gov. J.B. Pritzker campaigned on implementing a graduated income tax in Illinois to replace the current flat income tax, and made getting the measure passed in 2020 a lynchpin of his wider fiscal plan for the state.

All 44 House Republicans are co-sponsoring House Resolution 153, which opposes any shift to a graduated income tax.

“If my colleagues on the other side of the aisle are serious about helping the middle class, we need to take a serious look at our regressive property tax system. Property taxes are rising year after year, making it more difficult for working families to make ends meet and further driving jobs and opportunity across the border,” said state Rep. Tony McCombie (R-Savanna).

* From their resolution…

WHEREAS, A move by the General Assembly to amend the constitution to impose a graduated income tax would mean turning our backs on the residents of this State and the spirit of bipartisanship

Um, the General Assembly’s vote is only the first step. Illinoisans of all stripes and political persuasions will have the final word at the ballot box. So, you could say that giving people the opportunity to vote on this isn’t such a horrible idea.

But a retort could be: “OK, then why not let Illinoisans vote on changing the pension clause, or term limits, or redistricting reform?” Agreed, but you gotta pass that stuff through the General Assembly first. And the people who run that place aren’t willing to put those ideas up for floor votes.

So, in the end, I can understand opposing a binding referendum on the income tax until some of those other issues are also put before the voters, even knowing that the other side will never, ever agree to those terms.

* Just have at it. Everybody take their best shots. If the constitutional amendment fails to get out of the General Assembly, such is life. If a referendum is eventually held, engage in a robust debate. See what the voters decide. That’s America.

But try to stay at least a little truthful. This “turning our backs on the residents of this State” stuff is totally unsupported by the facts because Illinoisans will be the ultimate arbiters.

posted by Rich Miller
Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:08 pm

Comments

To the GOP:

Let the voters decide.

Comment by Norseman Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:18 pm
I can see why Republicans don’t want to leave things up to the voters.

Comment by Michelle Flaherty Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:19 pm
“Turning out backs” is so disingenous. Besides what Rich said, about how voters will literally have to overwhelmingly agree with it for it to become law, how is giving the state more flexibility to target those who can pay bad? Literally that’s all this does, allows for different rates. It wouldn’t necessitate different rates by itself, the rates are a different piece of legislation. If you want to have one income bracket with one rate, lobby for that, but give the state the flexibility to change that as needed.

Comment by Perrid Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:20 pm
===the spirit of bipartisanship===

All GOP GA members who objected to “I don’t want any #*@%I%& problems” raise your hands.

Comment by Nick Name Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:22 pm
An NPR reported tweeted how popular the graduated income tax is, per two polls from the last two years. Republican voters even support it. The Responsible Budget Coalition is saying 90% of us will get a tax cut. If whatever is being cooked up will have a cut for the vast majority of us (plus property tax relief), Republicans will be against tax cuts in a big way. Looking forward to this.

If Democrats can get 71 House votes with rates that reflect Responsible Budget Coalition’s plan, and based Republicans continuing to be the party of no, then Ram.It.Through.

Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:22 pm
The Democrats should just set the tax rates to be the same ones set by the Republicans in Congress and President Trump.

Comment by Just Me 2 Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:22 pm
–Illinois House Republicans are signing on to a resolution opposing a graduated income tax in Illinois.–

Fair enough. Have at it.

But given that, no more disingenuous whining about “we didn’t have a seat at the table, there was no compromise” as we saw with the minimum wage.

If you’re 100% against something, you’ve chosen not to be at the table if the deal goes down.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:23 pm
Call a constitutional convention.

Comment by Boochie Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:24 pm
=A move by the General Assembly to amend the constitution to impose a graduated income tax would mean turning our backs on the residents of this State and the spirit of bipartisanship=

Who knew the part of personal responsibility really just wants everything for free and wants to welch on its’ responsibilities.

Comment by JS Mill Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:26 pm
I don’t get it. As a GOPer I am for a graduated tax since I figure the alternative is raise taxes on everyone. Why are people so for debt?

Comment by I Miss Bentohs Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:29 pm
A little card playing never hurt. I’ll throw my pension card on the table, you throw down your graduated income tax card. What else do you have in your hand?

Comment by Wylie Coyote Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:30 pm
Man this is going to be such a knife fight.

Comment by Honeybear Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:31 pm
@Boochie, the last three statewide votes for a constitutional convention brought less than 33% in favor. The next vote is in 2028–maybe start your lobbying then?

Comment by Steve Rogers Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:37 pm
I see Illinois AT director wants money for rural broadband….The answer is no.

Comment by Not a Billionaire Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:38 pm
I could support a progressive income tax if it were structured with limits on rates. I don’t trust the legislators with an unfettered ability to set rates.

If they proposed that the top 40% of filers pay a 1% premium with the top 20% paying an additional 1%, I could support that. Then we could have 3 rates of 5,6,7% or 6,7,8%.

That is similar to the current ratio limit on taxes, which seems to have worked.

They may find it useful to differentiate between earned and unearned income. Someone tied to a job is less mobile than one just collecting interest and dividends.

I have known people who moved for tax reasons. Not claiming all would. But it makes me cautious.

Comment by Last Bull Moose Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:40 pm
People voted for Governor Pritzker knowing full well that he wanted to implement a progressive income tax. I’m not sure how anyone’s backs are being turned on the voters. They voted for it.

As for bipartisanship, I’m curious as to what they think that means. Two of Pritzker’s main policy goals were the minimum wage and a progressive income tax. The Republicans have opposed them both. There’s not a lot to be bipartisan on when it comes to those.

Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:41 pm
Ag not at. The rural reps want stuff from the state and don’t want to pay. This stunt really shows that.

Comment by Not a Billionaire Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:45 pm
When you voluntarily give up your seat at the table, don’t complain later that you had no input. Yes, that means you ILGOP. Act like adults instead of the two year old that only knows the word “no”.

Comment by Fixer Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:48 pm
==The Responsible Budget Coalition is saying…==

You lost me at Responsible Budget Coalition.

Comment by City Zen Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:49 pm
Graduated income tax polls well among voters. That’s why opponents are trying to head it off at the pass.

Comment by Ray del Camino Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:56 pm
Grandson, I will buy you a big juicy steak if 90% of the taxpayers have a reduction in their taxes with the progressive plan.

AINT.GONNA.HAPPEN

Comment by Pick a Name Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 1:57 pm
Why would the GOP want a seat at the table? I don’t expect Pritzker, Madigan and the seat warmer Cullerton to pay any attention to what the GOP says, and I don’t blame them. They won overwhelmingly, so now run the table. If you have the courage. But the GOP shouldn’t make it easy on old Mike. Make him deliver all the votes, and then hang it on him.

Should be interesting to watch.

Comment by SSL Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:07 pm
Republicans oppose a minimum wage Demoralized?

No Republicans recognize that an 82% increase in the minimum wage to $15 statewide would hurt many downstate communities who border states with lower costs of doing business.

But go ahead and make the case that JB is bipartisan and is looking out for small business

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:09 pm
Pick a Name, I’m thinking 50-60% get a (probably very small) reduction, the rest get at least a modest tax hike. The math’s not there for 90% of people to get a reduction, and there’s not a political will to get there if more than 40% ish get a hike, imo.

Comment by Perrid Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:10 pm
fix is in. it will be on the ballot — just a question of which Ds will have to walk the plank for it. maybe Madigan can buy off an R or two to allow a couple of his Ds to vote no.

Comment by jim Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:12 pm
==If my colleagues on the other side of the aisle are serious about helping the middle class, we need to take a serious look at our regressive property tax system.==

OK. The money has to come from somewhere. If you are really serious about reducing property taxes, what will you be replacing that revenue with? Also, if we reduce property taxes, will you be OK with an equitable distribution of state revenue to local schools?

Comment by Pot calling kettle Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:13 pm
I’m waiting for Rich’s poll to vote for who’s more incompetent…the Washington Generals or the House GOP.

Comment by Jocko Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:14 pm
I am in a minority here but I prefer a property tax where the revenues provide local services to a state income tax where only 56% stay in my county. The graduated income tax will probably shift more money out of my area.

Comment by Last Bull Moose Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:19 pm
===See what the voters decide. That’s America.===

Completely agree. But the voters decided. Along with the minimum wage, Pritzker ran on a progressive tax structure and Won. Not only did the voters elect a Dem for governor, the Democrats increased their majority in the legislature.

Sounds like a mandate to me. As Rich says often: Elections have consequences.

Being that it requires an constitutional amendment and will be put to the voters again, hopefully passing the amendment/referendum will be a formality.

As I mentioned in a previous post, Iowa has a progressive income tax and a progressive corporate tax, along with lower property taxes and their economy is booming.

This is just frustration coming out: No wonder it’s hard to get anything done politically in this country as you have to jump through hoop after hoop which just gives the opposition more grist for the mill. One side won and one side lost. Move on. But no.

Comment by Big Jer Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:19 pm
==Why would the GOP want a seat at the table?==

What do they have to lose? They can ask for things they want in return for supporting the CA and in the end it is the choice of the voters anyway. Did they forget how to make sausage?

Comment by Da Big Bad Wolf Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:21 pm
==Then we could have 3 rates of 5,6,7% or 6,7,8%.==

You can’t report “x% of people received a tax cut” with those rates.

Rates will be posted soon enough because the powers-that-be have long known how much revenue they need and what rates generate how much revenue.

Once they post the rates, working families will be able to make an informed choice on what is best for their family that works. Transparency and stability are key for working families, so the GA will be wise to offer long-term rate guarantees and indexing so that working families can plan accordingly as any tax hike will come from their retirement accounts and children’s college savings funds.

I’m sure the Dems are on the same working family page.

Comment by City Zen Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:21 pm
If you’re 100% against something, you’ve chosen not to be at the table if the deal goes down……….but when there is no discussion,its my way or the highway, i.e. “fair tax” what good is being at the table?

Comment by timmy Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:29 pm
The Democrats in the House and Senate have the votes to pass this, what is the big deal? In his first two major acts as Governor, Gov. Pritzker has shown little interest in bi-partisanship. His budget spends more money and relies on the failed gimmicks of the past and he chose not to compromise on minimum wage. Why should Durkin allow a handful of House Dems to get out of voting for this? What has the Governor done to show he is serious about bipartisanship?

Comment by Red Ranger Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:33 pm
Selling the progressive tax structure as a tax cut for most seems false. The state needs lots of revenue. Everybody needs to chip in.

As Governor Quinn used to say “Everybody in, nobody out. “

Comment by Last Bull Moose Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:35 pm
Governors own.

Comment by Flat Bed Ford Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:41 pm
All of this is pointless until they start releasing the tax rates. Pritzker is about to find out that the middle class folks he keeps talking about are also going to be paying more and then the whole thing will fall apart

Comment by Sue Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:46 pm
==Gov. Pritzker has shown little interest in bi-partisanship==

You can’t be “bipartisan” if someone is absolutely against something. There’s nothing to negotiate on the progressive tax if they are simply against the concept. They are free to join the negotiations on what that tax structure might look like. Unless you are arguing that to be “bipartisan” on the progressive income tax he simply should give up on it.

Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:46 pm
After Rauner the GOP is still suffering from Stockholm syndrome

Comment by Rabid Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:54 pm
== If whatever is being cooked up will have a cut for the vast majority of us (plus property tax relief), ==

If all you do is switch to a graduated income tax, you probably can’t have both a cut and significant property tax relief; too much existing debt and too much expanded spending.

Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:54 pm
== Call a constitutional convention. ==

1) you don’t need a Con-Con to change the State Constitution

2) the voters rejected the last opportunity for a Con-Con

Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:56 pm
Not a Billionare - “I see Illinois AG director wants money for rural broadband….The answer is no. ”
“The rural reps want stuff from the state and don’t want to pay. This stunt really shows that.”

Just so you’re aware, the AG Director is former State Senator John Sullivan, a Democrat. My guess is that he’d also be for a graduated income tax, but is also hoping that some of the money can be roped off for improving broadband access across the state, rather than just in the large cities.

Comment by Doing Human Things Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:58 pm
–Why would the GOP want a seat at the table?–

Ask them. They’ve been complaining for a very long time that they don’t have one in the GA. Do you doubt their sincerity?

Personally, I’m quite certain that many of them like it that way just fine. It’s a pretty sweet gig when there’s no heavy lifting involved.

Comment by wordslinger Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 2:58 pm
==Selling the progressive tax structure as a tax cut for most seems false==

There’s an old adage about working people not wanting to tax millionaires because they think someday, they too will be millionaires.

I’d wager than are many more that think they’ll be hundred-thousandaires.

Comment by City Zen Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 3:01 pm
===working people not wanting to tax millionaires because they think someday, they too will be millionaires===

It may be an adage, but polling doesn’t reflect it.

Comment by Rich Miller Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 3:05 pm
==Why would the GOP want a seat at the table?==

Because that’s the place to make your demands, such as: highest brackets cannot be greater than 2x the lowest bracket, indexing to inflation, married brackets twice the size of single brackets at all income levels, limits on the number of brackets, long-term freeze on rate hikes, etc.

All reasonable requests that, if not agreed upon in some fashion, makes the requesters seem highly unreasonable.

Comment by City Zen Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 3:07 pm
There will actually be 3 related fights over a graduated income tax.

1) the Legislature passing a CA

2) the Legislature passing the actual rates

3) the voters approving the CA

#1 is most likely a given, since all it does is let the voters decide. The only question is if any D’s get a pass on it.

#2 will be tougher because that is where you get down to dollars; look for LOTS of lobbying by the 1.4% to hold down the top rates.

#3 will be a PR fight as bad as campaign season. It shouldn’t be since the polls say the public support it, but that is where the GOP / 1.4% have the best chance to stop it. If past history (Olgivie) is a lesson, JB will need to be selling this for the next year and a half.

Grab the popcorn and pull up a chair; it’s going to be the best show since 1969/1970.

Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 3:08 pm
The Senate GOP has been going heavy on twitter for a Fair map question on the ballot.

So the GOP is for questions they like to be on the ballot but against questions they don’t like to be on the ballot. Got it. No wonder the losses keep mounting. Geez

Hey maybe you all should talk to each other before contradicting each others strategy. Either the voters are smart enough to know what’s good for the state or they aren’t. When you figure it out please get back to us.

Comment by DuPage Bard Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 3:22 pm
Some realtor wanting property tax relief to sell property

Comment by Rabid Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 3:24 pm
From the Republicans today:

“Illinoisans cannot afford another income tax increase and we cannot afford a system that allows politicians to play with rates and brackets just to fill budget holes.”

Just to fill budget holes? Just? Are you kidding me?

Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 3:25 pm
“..#3 will be a PR fight as bad as campaign season. It shouldn’t be since the polls say the public support it,…”

I think you are absolutely correct. This is when proponents must explain why additional revenue is required and what new or expanded services it will provide. Each of us can then decide if it is necessary. Maintaining public support is going to depend on their explanations.

Comment by CapnCrunch Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 3:47 pm
After all these years of taxes, taxes, miracle taxes, do you voters really believe this will work?
HAHA. Can’t wait to see the results of voters changing the Constitution, wealthy leaving Illinois along with the middle class.
What is middle class, by the way?

Comment by marylouise Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 3:48 pm
I am all in favor of a constitutional amendment that does away with the pension protection. Then the citizens of Illinois would finally learn that it does nothing to lessen the pension debt.

Comment by filmmaker prof Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 3:55 pm
== Then the citizens of Illinois would finally learn that it does nothing to lessen the pension debt. ==

But it is SO much easier to blame the Pension Clause than to look in the mirror and to to reconcile your (the public’s) demand for services at the champagne level when all you have is a beer budget.

Comment by RNUG Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 4:00 pm
==Just to fill budget holes? Just?==

But you’re cool with them playing with the rates?

Comment by City Zen Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 4:03 pm
“After all these years of taxes, taxes, miracle taxes, do you voters really believe this will work?”

Typical right wing hallucinations. Illinois’ state income taxes have been low for decades. Those scoffing and weeping phony tears of oppression today have been paying low state income taxes for many years. It’s hurt us.

Boy, those who want to cut government assistance to low income people and cut government workers, including busting their unions, sure hate having to make sacrifices. Who’da thunk?

Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 4:06 pm
JB anticipated this cry baby attitude of the GOP when he said:

I’m not naïve about what it will take to do this. All who enter a discussion about our state’s budget and a fair tax system in good faith will be welcomed to the table. But if you lead with partisanship and scare tactics you will be met with considerable political will.

Comment by don the legend Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 4:07 pm
==But you’re cool with them playing with the rates?==

Went right over your head didn’t it?

Their argument using “just to fill a budget hole” is goofy.

Comment by Demoralized Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 4:09 pm
The ILGOP and their primary financial supporters are afraid that the progressive tax just might pass if it goes before the voters. That’s why you’re seeing this political grandstanding by the GOP.

Comment by The Dude Abides Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 4:15 pm
Progressive taxes would be ok but a total restructuring of government is needed to go with it. Not necessarily at the state level, but at the local level. Government, as a whole, in this state is too decentralized. There are over 7,000 units of government. This needs to be fixed: consolidate school districts, eliminate townships that perform minimal services, water boards, mosquito abatement. The amount of local taxing bodies that we have is overwhelming. Consolidate and centralize more, lower property and local sales tax burdens, and then implement a progressive income tax to shore up the pensions and other finances at a state level.

Comment by West Town TB Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 4:17 pm
Seems like being the front guys/bagmen for fat cat billionaires/ultra rich is a bad idea and an awful position. But GOPies put themselves in this hole all the time.

Comment by Annonin' Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 4:49 pm
==reconcile your (the public’s) demand for services at the champagne level when all you have is a beer budget.==

Actually, we have several beer budgets that, when added together, exceed the price of champagne. Unfortunately, after spending all that champagne money, all we got was the champagne of beers and a 50 year plan to purchase a bottle of 1959 Dom Perignon someone else will drink.

Comment by City Zen Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 4:50 pm
==There’s an old adage about working people not wanting to tax millionaires because they think someday, they too will be millionaires.==

https://ballotpedia.org/Illinois_Millionaire_Tax_Increase_for_Education_Question_(2014)

Comment by Person 8 Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 5:15 pm
I think based on the polls, a lot of people do want to raise taxes on millionaires. A majority of Republican voters support this as well, in the two Illinois polls mentioned today by the NPR reporter on Twitter—if taxes are cut for lower-income people.

Polls were done on Sen. Warren’s wealth tax proposal, 2% extra for households worth more than $50 million and an extra percent for over $1 billion, and even then, more Republicans support than oppose.

Rep. Ocasio-Cortez’ 70% tax rate proposal for incomes over $10 million is less than the Eisenhower era top tax rate(s), in today’s dollars, so it’s not unreasonable.

Maybe the time is upon us to do this in Illinois.

Comment by Grandson of Man Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 6:08 pm
If there’s going to be an income tax increase before a progressive one can be instituted, I would hope it would have much higher deductibles to ease the hit on lower incomes, as well as demonstrate the potential impact for the public.

Comment by VerySmallRocks Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 6:23 pm
Lol, of course people want to raise taxes on other people.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 7:58 pm
– Rep. Ocasio-Cortez’ 70% tax rate proposal for incomes over $10 million –

First of all, if you want to be taken seriously, you shouldn’t be quoting AOC - she’s behaving like an over-idealistic child. Secondly, if I make 10 million, why should I give 7 million to the government ? What is my incentive to invest ?

Comment by Cornfed Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 7:59 pm
WestTown, great idea, but good luck. Politicians never give up power.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 8:00 pm
Illinois has one of the highest tax burdens in the country Grandson. That’s right now.

Comment by Anonymous Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 8:01 pm
What Demoralized said at 1:41. Spot on.

Comment by ajjacksson Wednesday, Feb 27, 19 @ 10:59 pm
GOP bipartisanship cooperation between minority senate and minority house

Comment by Rabid Thursday, Feb 28, 19 @ 7:48 am
@Cornfed - Unless you make 10,000,000.01, then you won’t be paying 70% on any portion of that amount. Understanding marginal tax rates is fundamental to any discussion of progressive taxes.

Comment by PublicServant Thursday, Feb 28, 19 @ 9:12 am
–Understanding marginal tax rates is fundamental to any discussion of progressive taxes.–

Willfully not understanding and misrepresenting are fundamental to those who reject the concept outright.

Comment by wordslinger Thursday, Feb 28, 19 @ 10:45 am

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