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* The ban was probably unnecessary to begin with because, as explained earlier this week, two of the protesting cheerleaders didn’t return to SIUC this semester and the third had already decided to stop taking a knee during the anthem. And legally speaking, it was highly problematic, as explained by Brian Munoz at the Daily Egyptian…
SIU Athletics has rescinded new language in the Student Athlete Code of Conduct that said any displays of activism will not be tolerated and could lead to the individual’s removal from their respective program. […]
“However, some have interpreted the language to suggest that our aim was to restrict the free speech rights of our students – that was never our intent,” [Tom Weber, associate athletic director over communications] said. “We fully support the free expression of ideas and opinions among our students and the entire Saluki family.” […]
“The government can make neutral rules for students to follow and universities can set higher standards of conduct for athletes, cheerleaders and other student leaders,” [William Freivogel, a media law professor at SIU] said. “But in the process, the government can’t discriminate based on the content or viewpoint of speech.”
Freivogel said the university cannot punish a student leader for taking a knee during the anthem if the school is also not prepared to “punish pro-flag, pro-military or Tim Tebow-style religious gestures.”
Gregory Magarian, a law professor at Washington University in St. Louis, said he shared similar sentiments.
“If we’re going to say there’s nothing political about standing for the national anthem then we are saying one of two things – we’re saying it’s meaningless, or we’re saying that we are absolutely forcing a consensus political view on everybody and it has political significance – and you will obey that political significance, or you are out.”
*** UPDATE *** Ed Yohnka, Director of Communications and Public Policy, ACLU of Illinois…
SIU has done the right thing by reversing this ill-conceived policy. Students at a public university should be able to weigh in on matters of public concern without threats of reprisals and discipline. This action represents an opportunity for the University to foster an active dialogue about a range of issues – including the need for police reform in our nation. We hope the University will embrace this moment and create an atmosphere where views can be expressed and exchanged in a thoughtful manner.
posted by Rich Miller
Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 10:08 am
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Good move.
Comment by Stark Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 10:12 am
Boom. Roasted
Comment by Charry Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 10:16 am
Oh no. Does this mean white parents won’t let their kids go to SIU, as some commenters implied here the other day with long-winded, weasel-wordy babbling about “customer bases,” “diversity” and “survival?”
I’m pretty sure a couple of cheerleaders taking a knee aren’t at the top of the list of SIU’s challenges.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 10:17 am
Surely a deed which will result in increased enrollment.
Comment by BlueDogDem Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 10:20 am
“some have interpreted the language to suggest that our aim was to restrict the free speech rights of our students – that was never our intent”
Either that was their intent or their ban was an intentionally pointless stunt.
There is no third option.
– MrJM
Comment by @misterjayem Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 10:22 am
It’s almost like, hey, maybe we should run this by the lawyers? Nah…
Comment by Ron Burgundy Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 10:25 am
===Does this mean white parents won’t let their kids go to SIU, as some commenters implied here the other day with long-winded, weasel-wordy babbling about “customer bases,” “diversity” and “survival?”===
Lol, and references to some sort of “social agenda” going on at SIUC. Wonder what they meant by that?
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 10:52 am
BlueDogDem, you cheered this comment on Wednesday: “The inference that SIU has racist policies is absurd.”
They enforced a new policy based on 1st Amendment actions taken by three African-American people. What do you call that? I know what I call that.
But, hey, grumblemumble about enrollment. Have you looked at how many people actually live in southern Illinois? Not many. That means you have to attract people from outside the region. Too many townies think universities are somehow only for them and theirs. They’re state facilities, open to all who qualify from literally all over the world. Get over yourself.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 10:57 am
I wrote this yesterday…
=== ===Some wealthy southern Illinoisans cut them off last year, so maybe, yeah.===
This could speak to the regional impact having universities where they “are”, and as an important fixture in the region (socially, economically,…) if SIU needs to reflect the local “feelings”… how can these regional schools hope to be enticing to “kids” not from the region… like Chicago kids?===
I’m glad they SIU did the right thing now after what was a terrible decision.
This idea that SIU needed to “reflect” the “feelings” of the region, a signal of embracing less… and welcoming less… to those not from those parts?
No educational institution should need to be shamed to be inclusive.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 11:04 am
In other SIUC Athletic Department news, the football team won yesterday.
And SIU desperately needed a win.
Now let’s see how long it takes the administration to turn that win into a loss.
Comment by Leigh John-Ella Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 11:11 am
–Have you looked at how many people actually live in southern Illinois? Not many. That means you have to attract people from outside the region.–
Yeah, but that’s what Tamms was for, until Quinn closed it down.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 11:11 am
It’s almost as if the school in the part of the state that was home to lynchings and sundown towns not so long ago suddenly realized that they can’t just make a rule to keep black students from protesting how black folks are treated and then pretend that rule doesn’t exist for their white students.
Comment by Anon Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 11:18 am
What took them so long? (/snark)
Comment by Keyrock Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 11:18 am
The racism and civil rights violations are very serious. But the funny part of the initial ban on protesting is how it’s like SIU’s administration has never MET any college students. I can tell you for sure the fastest way to turn 3 students’ protest into 3,000 students protesting is to ban the protest!
Comment by Suburban Mom Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 11:32 am
No Rich. I don’t think there was one iota of racial anything. I don’t know for sure the administrations real reasons. But what i do know is that kids aren’t flocking to SIUC. For two years I posted,”ask the kids why they are not going to SIUC”. I have. Kids coming from socially conservative up Bringings feel overwhelmed. I get it. I see it. Nothing to do with race. Think a kid from Freeburg,Carterville,Columbia,Marion,Marissa think it cool to not stand for the anthem. When i speak diversity, i mean it goes both ways on the political spectrum. I feel the Chicago liberal presence at SIUC has overwhelmed SIUC. Everyone is entitled to their first amendment rights. Just like those who think it’s wrong to display them during the Anthem. Applaud the action as long as you like. It makes me very sad to see the death of SIUC.
Comment by BlueDogDem Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 11:44 am
===I don’t think there was one iota of racial anything===
Of course you don’t.
Comment by Rich Miller Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 11:46 am
–Everyone is entitled to their first amendment rights. Just like those who think it’s wrong to display them during the Anthem.–
Yeah, the playing of the national anthem is just the worst time to exercise your constitutional rights that it celebrates.
But not only can you think it’s wrong, you are free to say so.
The difference here, obviously, is that the board sought to use it’s state authority to intimidate or penalize those that you disagree with in exercising their rights.
The fact that you think black cheerleaders taking a knee that one time somehow harms enrollment is irrelevant to those rights. And weird.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 11:57 am
=Kids coming from socially conservative up Bringings feel overwhelmed. =
Are they so delicate that they cannot even be exposed to the presence of non-conservative view points? Yikes. This is the same group that loves to call people snow flakes.
Having grown up in a community that was not very diverse (meaning mostly white and Catholic) going to college was a bit of a shock to the system at first, but that was actually a good thing. The experience taught me to be more socially responsible and opened my eyes to the world as it was and not how my parents or even me wanted it to be.
Too many parents have failed to prepare their kids for that experience and instead complain and want to force society )colleges in this case) to conform to their norms. Not going to happen, we are in a pluralistic society where everyone is free to have and voice their beliefs. No one has to agree. Conducted in a civil way, that conversation is good for everyone.
Liberal or conservative, it does not matter.
SIU is there for all of us and I would venture to guess that the enrollment is mostly from areas outside of the SIU region.
=I feel the Chicago liberal presence at SIUC has overwhelmed SIUC.=
Most people live in Illinois reside in the Chicago Metro region. That is Chicago, Cook and the collar counties. It is a very diverse area and I doubt that “Chicago Liberalism”. The metro population outside of the city is about 8 million. The collar counties are not “liberal” as a monolith or purely conservative either. I think your statement is inaccurate.
Comment by JS Mill Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 12:03 pm
Word. I don’t disagree that this action won’t harm enrollment. My comment has been it won’t help enrollment. Do you care about SIUC? For those in the SIUC area who know old Blue would ,to even remotely imply any racial bias would be met with laughter. No my only concern is SIUC.
Comment by BlueDogDem Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 12:07 pm
===No my only concern is SIUC.===
Well bless your heart.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 12:21 pm
–I feel the Chicago liberal presence at SIUC has overwhelmed SIUC–
What makes you think the kneeling cheerleaders were Chicago?
They weren’t.
One of the cheerleaders was from Nashville, TN.
I mean, it’s like you can feel the Tennessee liberal presence overwhelming SIUC.
Comment by Leigh John-Ella Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 12:25 pm
===I mean, it’s like you can feel the Tennessee liberal presence overwhelming SIUC.===
This is serious heat. Wow.
Maybe - BDD - should sit out a few plays.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 12:28 pm
=I feel the Chicago liberal presence at SIUC has overwhelmed SIUC.=
Yeah, all those white liberal Chicago kids at SIU.
You think it’s a proper role of government authority to curtail some people’s exercise of their rights because you don’t like their politics and claim, without any evidence, that it threatens the “survival” of the school.
Who’s disrespecting the anthem and what it stands for?
Hint: it ain’t a couple of cheerleaders taking a knee.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 12:29 pm
If you read the comments from the Athletic management in the articles in the Daily Egyptian and the Chronicle of Higher Education, I don’t think this was an SIU idea. I think this was an Athletics’ dept idea (and as one who lives here it has a certain big donor written all over it) and they didn’t even clear it with General Counsel or the Chancellor. Created a HUGE PR problem for the campus that had pretty much died down. Truthfully, someone in Athletics should be called in on, laid down on and crushed on the carpet for this bonehead idea.
Comment by Saluki64 Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 12:34 pm
===It makes me very sad to see the death of SIUC. ===
Maybe one should favor raising taxes and funding higher education so SIUC instate tuition isn’t the same as private school tuition. If you’re not going to be a top university, you can’t charge top university tuition.
Comment by Anon Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 12:48 pm
=Kids coming from socially conservative up Bringings feel overwhelmed.=
The great thing about college is that it exposes us to people that aren’t like ourselves. What you might colloquially refer to as “the Chicago liberal presence.” A kid from Marion might meet another kid who’s African American, Hispanic, or Asian for the first time. They might realize that those kids have had a tougher time because of who they are or where they came from. And maybe sometimes those kids that had it tougher than they did might do something to remind people of their struggles.
Obviously all of this makes you very uncomfortable. But sometimes its not about you.
This isn’t 1960. SIUC needs to evolve in order to survive. Do you really think that they can grow enrollment by telling “the Chicago liberal presence” they aren’t welcome in Southern Illinois?
Comment by Anonymous Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 1:17 pm
Surely a deed which will result in increased enrollment.
=======================================
“Surely a deed which will result in one less lawsuit that they would lose”.
Fixed it for you.
Comment by btowntruthfromforgottonia Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 1:20 pm
12,408.
Comment by BlueDogDem Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 1:20 pm
–Obviously all of this makes you very uncomfortable. But sometimes its not about you.–
LOL, this must be your first contact with BDD.
Comment by wordslinger Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 1:29 pm
=12,408.=
If I knew where you were I would get you medical attention stat, you are spouting gibberish now.
The anguish of those who never want the world to be different than there “happy place” is a self inflicted wound.
Comment by JS Mill Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 1:43 pm
Hey Blue,
Were you this worked up over the sneaky stuff Dunn and Sholar tried with taking money from SIU-C and reallocating it to SIU-E?
Comment by btowntruthfromforgottonia Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 2:06 pm
Btown. SIUE needs to be treated fairly. IMO it is the flagship of Southern.
Comment by BlueDogDem Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 2:10 pm
The protests don’t me and don’t affect my support of any team or organization.
What is offensive is knowing how over active this University is in recruiting minorities and promoting diversity, often to the point of alienating the local population, to be accused of being racist.
The University is in a nose dive and I suspect they just can’t afford to lose more donors who don’t want to see these protests.
The ACLU got their win, will they write the check to the University for the lost donors? Doubt it. Will the commend the University for promoting diversity, before diversity was cool, doubt it.
Comment by the Patriot Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 2:22 pm
Nice win last night.
Comment by BlueDogDem Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 2:28 pm
A refresher from six weeks ago from The Southern Illinoian…….
Dunn, who first began as president of SIU in 2014, has come under fire recently after nearly 1,900 pages of university documents showed that he colluded with officials on the Edwardsville campus to bolster a funding reallocation proposal between the two campuses in the system.
The internal emails and meeting notes showed that Dunn worked closely with SIUE Chancellor Randy Pembrook in developing the proposal, which would have shifted $5.1 million in state appropriation funding from SIU Carbondale to Edwardsville.
Dunn’s office also worked to support a piece of state legislation, introduced by State Rep. Jay Hoffman, D-Swansea, to dissolve the SIU System and create separate boards of trustees for SIUC and SIUE.
Comment by btowntruth from forgottonia Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 2:31 pm
===often to the point of alienating the local population,===
Are you referring to the restaurant and tavern owners who want as many customers as possible? Or maybe the landlords who can charge higher rents to students from Chicago because they don’t know they’re getting ripped off? These people feel alienated?
How about the good people of Carbondale that work on construction projects around the university? Do they feel alienated?
Something tells me that people like you don’t have a problem if the minority student being recruited is 6′10″ or can run a 4.3 40. But heaven forbid they come to Carbondale simply to earn a degree.
I think you really need to examine your feelings a little more closely.
Comment by 47th Ward Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 2:31 pm
===What is offensive is knowing how over active this University is in recruiting minorities and promoting diversity, often to the point of alienating the local population, to be accused of being racist.===
With respect, as I break this down…
“What is offensive is knowing how over active this University is in recruiting minorities and promoting diversity, often to the point of alienating the local population”
So, to take that as written, this sentence indicts the region that they have a “limit” to what diversity means.
“to be accused of being racist.”
If SIU was bending to a region that has a “measure” of how far diversity can go… tough not to see it as being less than open.
===will they write the check to the University for the lost donors? Doubt it. Will the commend the University for promoting diversity, before diversity was cool, doubt it.===
“will they write the check to the University for the lost donors?”
Racism has a monetary measure. Think on how that sounds.
“Will the commend the University for promoting diversity, before diversity was cool, doubt it.”
It’s up to the University to be an open place of learning, welcoming to all, to grow.
That’s the charge of all universities too.
Again, respectfully.
Comment by Oswego Willy Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 2:35 pm
Did the former SIU-C President colluding with SIU-E officials to try to send $5,000,000 from his school to SIU-E bother you as much as three cheerleaders kneeling?
Comment by btowntruth from forgottonia Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 2:36 pm
And Dunn got caught lying about being neutral on the proposals that would have split the two SIU campuses.
Were the people who are so upset now over some cheerleaders taking a knee during the anthem as upset over their University President being caught in a blatant lie?
Comment by btowntruth from forgottonia Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 2:43 pm
Hey Blue: I think you missed the word a few decades back that the Times have Changed. We Dems who are woke and up to speed don’t wish to claim you anymore , and encourage your disassociation. Where should you go? I can’t say, but perhaps you would be happier and a better fit in Trump/Bannon/Duke’s Republican Party.
Comment by YellowDogDem Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 3:14 pm
Btown. Not my argument at all. The Siu’s will be split soon enough. Although I love SIUC, the cash should be split. As for Dunn, I believe in honesty and openeSs.
Comment by blue dog dem Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 3:28 pm
Neutrality is not racism. Attempts to call it racism set us backward and promote polarity and confrontation. There is too much real racism in the world for that.
Anyone who thinks SIU did this out of racism is either A. in possession of some powerful inside info (please share), or B. is seeing racism in anything that isn’t pure advocacy.
Do you really think SIU would have had no problem with other protests by their own representatives during official events? No problem with athletes engaging in an abortion protest (either pro-choice or pro-life)? Or, to get even more controversial, a white power protest? The rule was against activism during official duties, and that is just common sense.
What does race have to do with a rule that leave politics out of official events? The way people on this blog are approaching it, you’d think this action targeted all students, not official representatives at official events. Further, you’d think it was all about this specific protest and race, instead of about the overall problems that arises when agents of the school protest during their official duties.
Seeing racism everywhere causes more problems that it solves. So, unless someone has some inside info on how other protests would have been fine, or actual info about some internal racist motive: stop making this about race. It’s not, anymore than blocking an pro-life protest (by official representatives, during their official duties) would be about hating babies. It wouldn’t.
Comment by Liandro Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 4:22 pm
Dunn got caught lying and resigned before he got fired.
The leadership down there is at best out of touch.
Back to a point I made offline to friends,of all the issues they have they choose three cheerleaders kneeling during the anthem to worry about.
Comment by btowntruthfromforgottonia Friday, Aug 31, 18 @ 4:25 pm