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The horror
Friday, Jan 27, 2012 * I thought I read somewhere that the governors of New Jersey and Wisconsin were making huge strides toward improving their states’ business climates? And didn’t I also read somewhere that those two governors were courting Illinois companies by bad-mouthing this state’s business climate? Yeah, I’m sure I saw something on those topics. I’m positive, in fact. Well, the widely esteemed Tax Foundation just unveiled its 2012 State Business Tax Climate Index. Here are the ten worst states…
Well, slash my pension and call me Ty. I thought for sure that his holiness Chris Christie and his trusty sidekick Scott Walker would have done better than this. Guess I was wrong. Dangit. I just hate being wrong. According to the new report, Illinois is in the middle of the pack, at 28th place. That’s down from 16th the previous year, but the tax hike is done so Illinois won’t plummet much more unless the Christie/Walker biumverate actually does something about their states’ absolutely horrible business tax climates. The Tax Foundation also noted this…
* I’m really not being serious here. Govs. Christie and Walker both have their good sides, although Christie’s side is far bigger than Walker’s, but I digress. They’re both doing what they think is right, even if it grates on some of us that they appear to believe they have to tear down Illinois to make themselves look better. And, really, are these reports worth anything? I mean, Iowa’s unemployment rate is just 5.7 percent, yet the state was just ranked 41st worst in the nation, mainly due to its 12 percent corporate income tax rate. Maybe taxes don’t mean as much as Christie and Walker keep saying, even though taxes do appear to have played at least some role in our state’s unemployment rate last year. The bottom line is surveys like these don’t tell us a lot about what’s really going on with business development.
- Posted by Rich Miller
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- The Captain - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 10:58 am:
The best way to improve our economy is to increase its size and raise the tax base. We should invade and conquer Missouri.
- WashingtonIrving - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 10:59 am:
Did you read the methodology before posting? I’m wondering if I should actually read the study before I comment.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 11:00 am:
===Did you read the methodology before posting? ===
Yes, but you should always try to read linked documents before commenting.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 11:02 am:
===We should invade and conquer Missouri. ===
As you know, I have been arguing for this very thing for years. But only St. Louis as far west as University City. Beyond that, there’s not much we’d need.
- Dirty Red - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 11:06 am:
= Well, slash my pension and call me Ty. =
Epic.
- Former Merit Comp Slave - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 11:09 am:
“Well slash my pension and call me Ty” and “both governors have their good side although Christie’s side is far bigger than Walkers” - I must say I didn’t believe it was possible to snort peaches through your nose from laughing so hard.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 11:13 am:
I hope those peaches were being snorted out of your nose and not into your nose.
Just sayin…
- Stateline - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 11:23 am:
The whole dialog of pitting State against State is dangerous for the entire country. The Governor’s who need this type of “us vs. them” competition, should save it for the gridiron or the hardwood.
- Bill - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 11:28 am:
Nobody ever mentions that Governor Wide Load balanced the NJ budget by not making the state’s required pension payments. That’s the type of leadership that would make Jim Edgar proud. As for the other guy, he’ll be gone in 6 months. Maybe he’ll have to move to Illinois to look for job.
- wordslinger - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 11:30 am:
The methodology seems to be entirely based on the various taxes levied on businesses and does not take into account what taxes businesses actually pay or how those taxes have effected business development, including in a positive way.
Do you think California would be the eighth largest economy in the world, on its own, without its public university system?
So the four best business tax climates are Wyoming, South Dakota, Nevada and Alaska. Those states rank in GDP among the states at 48, 47, 32 and 46. Not getting a whole lot of business for their business-friendly environments.
Meanwhile, economic powerhouses such as New York, California, and yes, New Jersey have “bad” business climates, but much business.
Just goes to show you how simple-minded and wrong — the whole state tax frenzy has been. Those leading the charge have to know that, right? What are their motives?
- TwoFeetThick - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 11:47 am:
===We should invade and conquer MissourI. ===
=As you know, I have been arguing for this very thing for years. But only St. Louis as far west as University City. Beyond that, there’s not much we’d need.=
What do you mean “not much we’d need”? With all the meth manufacturing sites we’d pick up, we could corner ee market
- TwoFeetThick - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 11:50 am:
===We should invade and conquer MissourI. ===
=As you know, I have been arguing for this very thing for years. But only St. Louis as far west as University City. Beyond that, there’s not much we’d need.=
What do you mean “not much we’d need”? With all the meth manufacturing sites we’d pick up, we could corner the market.
- TwoFeetThick - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 11:52 am:
Sorry for all the typos. Trying to get used to new phone.
- dupage dan - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 11:55 am:
I wonder how long it takes to change the tax rates in a particular state? Can a governor lower taxes on his own or does it start in the legislature? Many here have posted that the first order of business that a gov should engage in is lowering the cost of gov’t before considering any changes on the revenue side.
Was either Christie or Walker the authors of the high tax rates in their respective states?
Just wonderin’
- Shore - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 12:02 pm:
We see a survey come out seems like every week from some business/labor group or some government agency or some think tank or some nonprofit which inspires either conservatives and republicans to trash the state (if it fits the narrative) or for Democrats in the state to spin us that things are so much better here. In reality what these surveys have showed pretty consistently is that the dakotas, and texas and Virginia are doing pretty well with a few other random states like an Iowa thrown in there and that for the most part every other state is not. It’s hard to pick through these things to see what criteria they are using/or not and I think it’s a larger distraction from the more serious stuff that’s discussed here. You can say Illinois is 16th but if you talk to most people actually in the state-including the North Shore and they will tell you they feel like we’re in 49th or 50th and I am not talking about people who are out of work (and thus really upset) or people who listen to rush and hannity all day (and think the state is basically france).
With respect to Governor Christie and Governor Walker, they, like Wilmette’s newest chicago mayor seem to spend an inordinate amount of time on projects related to either their national political profile/national politics/things other than their job/courting the national media. I do not like Governor Quinn at all, but at least he doesn’t seem to spend most of his time preparing to go on charlie rose or worrying about 2012 Presidential campaign strategy or what the economic situation is in cherry hill.
- Louis G. Atsaves - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 12:28 pm:
According to the study, Illinois moved most dramatically of all the States, falling from 16 to 28 in a single year. Perhaps plummeting would be a better word?
I can appreciate the Illinois boosterism around here and I certainly don’t want to live in a bad state, but when we constantly spin bad news as good news, aren’t we hurting ourselves?
- wordslinger - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 12:28 pm:
Shore, I work a lot in your neighborhood. I don’t find a whole lot of people in Deerfield, Lake Forest, Northbrook, Glenview, Highland Park, et. al who really think they’re getting the short end of the stick in this country.
Getting good help, that’s another story….
- Rich Miller - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 12:31 pm:
===Perhaps plummeting would be a better word?===
Actually, I did use that word.
- anonymice - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 12:33 pm:
The Tax Foundation rates the states only on tax burden, not on any other metric. All of these rating systems are very subjective in what they are attempting to measure and how they measure whatever, but this particular study is expressly limited to tax burden on business (whatever “tax burden” and “business” might be).
- wordslinger - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 12:42 pm:
Louis, you say boosterism, that’s the job for the chamber of commerce (not in Illinois, of course).
But some of us just don’t buy the unrelenting negativity that is based in willful ignorance or in cynicism for short-term political gain.
Problems, absolutely. I’d submit that life is one g-d problem after another and then you die. So what? Work them in good faith.
It’s like Vegas — sometimes you’re up, sometimes you’re down, but the house always wins in the end. Try to enjoy yourself.
And if ain’t based in facts, it’s all fair game.
- Decatur Newswatcher - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 12:53 pm:
Rich, the Decatur Herald is very good at copying posts from Capitol Fax and absolutely pulverizing Illinois Democrats…I wonder if they will report anything from this. They are the most NEGATIVE newspaper in the State of Illinois.
- Going nuclear - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 1:01 pm:
===I can appreciate the Illinois boosterism around here and I certainly don’t want to live in a bad state, but when we constantly spin bad news as good news, aren’t we hurting ourselves?===
Most people on this blog understand the huge challenges facing Illinois, but they also know we have some good things going and that the constant negativity is going to make it even harder for us to turn things around.
- RMWStanford - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 1:05 pm:
Business climate goes far beyond just the tax rates, including things like regulation/ regulatory cost and the way that business perceive a state and how business friendly it is. It is good not to be the bottom in this survey but number 28 is not great in way shape of form. NOr do I think that anyone would consider Illinois to have one of the best business climates in the country or one of the best operating economies.
- wordslinger - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 1:18 pm:
–…and the way that business perceive a state and how business friendly it is.–
Sounds rather subjective. How do you measure that? Perhaps by where they actually and locate.
I guess that would put Illinois 5th out of 50, based on GDP, or 4th out of 50, based on Fortune 500 headquarters.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2011/states/IL.html
- Shock & Awww(e) - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 1:31 pm:
But don’t you understand THE SKY IS FALLING?
- Birdseed - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 1:36 pm:
So Indiana really IS kicking our tails?
- TwoFeetThick - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 1:44 pm:
Way back when, I used to work for a local government promoting economic development. Tax rates were only one component of what companies were looking for when deciding where to site facilities. And it wasn’t even the biggest concern. The biggies were are there adequate roads and rail to move their products to market? What’s the cost of land? Is there an educated workforce nearby or will they have to spend a lot on training? How are the schools? And, and this is more important than you might think, what is there to do? No one wants to move their family and their company somewhere where it’s an hour drive to see a movie.On those measures, most of Illinois is in pretty good shape, even with the tax increase. In comparison, you have states (like Michigan, for example) where they’re turning paved roads into gravel, rather than raising taxes to maintain them. What company is going to move their facility to an area that doesn’t have the 80,000 lb roads they need to support their shipping trucks?We have our problems, but we’re generally headed in the right direction, IMHO.
- Louie - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 1:49 pm:
In 2008, Paul Krugman wrote in his New York Times blog that the Tax Foundation was “not a reliable source” in response to a report by the Tax Foundation comparing corporate tax rates in the United States to those in other countries. In 2011, Krugman accused the Tax Foundation of “deliberate fraud” in connection with a report it issued concerning the American Jobs Act.
- Obamas Puppy - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 1:58 pm:
Oh Ty your law clinets must get sick of you asking them for money to your PACS and ohter ventures. Be sure to let them know you will get an evil government pension when making the pitch.
- anon - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 2:13 pm:
Walker and Dough Boy are just louder than most. That’s why they are able to get the attention. Trashing Illinois also feeds into RNC talking points b/c it’s Obama’s home state. As usual it’s more bluster than facts. But it would held if we had a more effective messanger at the executive helm.
- reformer - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 2:20 pm:
To listen to Republicans, both in-state and from Wisconsin and Jersey, you’d think the Land of Obama has the worst business climate in the country.
I’d like to hear from some of these knee-jerk critics of our state explain away this ranking of 28th, right in the middle, instead of 50th. I guess the Democrats who run this state have done something right to rank 16th two years ago.
- Stateline - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 2:38 pm:
TwoFeetThick is on target. Every State has a loud, but in the minority, “sky is falling” population. Prospective companies are considering items such as, the cost of receiving goods and the cost of delivery to market. Those are two of the leading items analyzed by consultants for prospective companies. Transportation logistics is where we shine, because of our central location on the continent, highway system, river system, railroads, Lake Michigan and easy access to great airports. Gains have been made but they are tough to see while we being in the middle of a national recession and recovery.
- Anonymous - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 3:22 pm:
More from the Tax Foundation Study
Illinois Rankings
Corporate Tax 45
UI Tax 43
Property Tax
Illinois moved most dramatically in its Index rank over the past year, falling twelve places (from 16th place in 2011 to 28th place in 2012).
- reformer - Friday, Jan 27, 12 @ 3:40 pm:
Illinois bashing by Republicans is part and parcel of the campaign to defeat Obama. By discrediting his state and party, it’s a way to discredit him.
The term “the Chicago way” isn’t referring to George Ryan and Republicans.