First, the setup…
When Tracy Chappell, 26, was eight months pregnant at the beginning of June, she was stopped for speeding in Niles. Even though her husband, a police officer, was sitting in the passenger’s seat, she had to hand over her driver’s license. […]
It turns out, Illinois is the only state that does this. We just think it’s normal because it’s been legal here since the ’60s. In most other states, officers hand you a ticket and then you’re expected to mail in your fine.
There are some states that’ll take your license if you’re stopped for drunken driving, like California, or if you’re an out-of-state driver, like in Michigan. And if you’re stopped in Georgia, the police officer can take you straight to jail if he sees fit.
While officers in Illinois do have discretion to allow a motorist to keep their license, it is rarely exercised, said Richard Casler, Schaumburg’s director of police.
There is no law in Illinois allowing officers to take licenses. Instead, the policy is a rule set down by the Illinois Supreme Court, which decides how laws should be enforced.
Question: Should state law be changed to allow people to keep their drivers licenses after a non-DUI traffic stop? Explain.
- VanillaMan - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 9:57 am:
I hate when that happens. It forces me to deal with the traffic issue immediately. It is like a form of punishment.
But then, isn’t that the point?
- Carl Nyberg - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:04 am:
What’s the relevance of the woman being pregnant?
- Rebel13 - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:05 am:
The problem with this practice, which didn’t exist 20+ years ago, is how dependent we are on our drivers license as a formal ID. If the state has it, you can’t do anything where a legal ID is required, ie flying. This needs to be updated to fit the current needs.
- Jerry - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:05 am:
Yes, it should. With a requirement for photo ID for so many things these days, not everyone has a second form of ID. And a lot of places, such as airports, don’t like to acknowledge any ID that isn’t a state ID or a Driver’s License.
- Napoleon has left the building - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:05 am:
The law should be changed. For more serious offenses, such as speeding in excess of 30 MPH over the limit, DUI or wreckless driving - the license should definately be taken. But for ordinary stuff like going 15 over on a highway or a stop sign infraction, they should not take licenses. It’s not necessary. If you have to get on a plane, you need your license.
- Bill Baar - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:12 am:
In Germany, you paid the fine on the spot to the cop.
I guess that would create issues in Illinois.
Although with those pc’s in the squad. No reason you couldn’t swipe your credit card.
- Anon - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:13 am:
Confiscating one’s license is interpreted by other states as it was suspended. Try showing that ticket as a license in Utah and the response would be most likely a smile, “you got to be kidding”
IL does accept a AAA card (as bond) as an alternative, but that is discriminatory in that not all drivers have AAA cards.
This should be changed
- Kosin - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:13 am:
I don’t know why her being pregnant matters. I do know that I need a driver’s license to get a drink. Even though I just turned 50 I am carded all the time.
- Chicago Cynic - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:16 am:
I’m glad you wrote about this as I just was in traffic court on Monday for a ridiculous ticky-tack offense.
When I was pulled over for it (along with two other cars) it didn’t even occur to me that the cop was going to keep my license. He was obviously in the mood to be a schmuck and didn’t bother telling me that he would keep my license.
I thought he gave it back to me, and didn’t notice until I got downtown (I was at Fullerton and LSD when I got the ticket). Now I carry a AAA card which I could have given in lieu of the license had I thought about it, but frankly, it’s not as if I get tickets every year, so it didn’t occur to me.
Long story short, I went back to the scene but he was gone. I went to another police state (sent by 311) and it was the wrong place. Interestingly the desk sargent said, “you got a ticket for that? Oh, our guys never would have done that.” I finally caught up with the cop at a different station and got my license back.
It was a totally ridiculous waste of time. But had I not done that, I would have been without my license for three months (they were slow in giving me a court date). Obviously in this ID sensitive society, that is absurd. The law should be changed.
BTW - in the end the cop didn’t even show, which is too bad, since I was looking forward to a vigorous cross examination.
- Bluefish - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:20 am:
Get rid of this goofy system. It never made sense to me and creates the opportunities for mistakes. One time I was ticketed in a town that is part of two counties. The ticket was issued for the county where the violation took place. I paid the fine in a timely manner but weeks later had to call the county clerk to inquire why I had not received my license back. They claimed they had no record of my ticket (but of course they cashed the check as soon as they got it). Took a while for them to track down my license in the other county and get it returned to me (two weeks later).
- Ken in Aurora - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:21 am:
I’ve always thought this was a silly process. I can see doing it with DUI or other more serious offenses, but not on 99% of citations.
I started carrying a state ID card as soon as they were offered for just this reason. If I do get a mover and have my license lifted, I still have an official state ID.
Also, when a business wants to hold my license (like when borrowing a wheelchair) I give them the ID - I don’t surrender my DL to *anyone* other than a cop.
- Garp - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:23 am:
They ticket you with cameras for speeding and blowing red lights now without taking your license. They suspend your license for emissions, toll violations, parking tickets and a myriad of other reasons without taking your license.
What is the point of taking someone’s i.d. when all they really want is our money? That’s why I say just slip the cop a c-note and be done with it. The cop will put it to better use than the politicians.
- Ken in Aurora - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:24 am:
BTW, anyone else remember how cops used to hold your DL up to the light to count staple holes? Thankfully the new licenses can’t be stapled.
- Jaded - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:26 am:
Maybe some of you should just slow down.
- Gene Parmesan - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:26 am:
Yes, the law should be changed. Also, why do we have to provide proof of insurance? The cops have pc’s in the car, can’t the insurance companies and the cops have a database system? Seems like a lot of no insurance tickets just end up tossed out of court when you go in and show that you did have insurance.
- L.S. - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:27 am:
AMEN - I’m glad this is finally getting some attention. Taking licenses is not only inconvienent, it’s totally impratical in the modern world. What if I had a flight to catch the next day? No luck. It’s more than just a license, it’s a formal ID that is too heavily relied upon to take away for minor traffic offences.
- Doug Dobmeyer - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:27 am:
Absolutely! This is a form of instant “street justice” that places us all at the mercy of the system.
That time has surely passed.
Doug
- Traveler - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:34 am:
A few years ago, before I got out of Illinois, I was stopped on my way to catching a flight out of St Louis. I fortunately had enough cash to post the required bond so that my license would not be taken, but had I been traveling with little cash (as we all do with debit cards/credit cards), getting on my flight would have likely been much more difficult, if not impossible, without my license!
- Princeville - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:37 am:
I got mine taken away by State Police when stopped for not wearing a seatbelt. I all but begged the officer to let me keep my ID as I can’t do much in Peoria without an ID. Took it anyway. Then just recently my son who is 20 was stopped for speeding on 74 also by State Officer . Son got to keep his ID even without asking to. This seems to be very selective with no logical reasoning behind some taking it and some not. Taking a driver’s ID is a long outdated practice, which needs to to updated to face the world we now live in.I was floored when my son pulled out his license and proved to me he still had it, on top of that the officer did not even have my son sign the ticket and the officer spelled my son’s last name wrong.
- Crimefighter - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:40 am:
They should end the practice now. They’ve been holding onto licenses to get people to show up for traffic court, but in the age of technology if someone doesn’t show up for traffic court they can easily track someone down.
- cermak_rd - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:41 am:
Oh for heaven’s sakes. Get yourselves a state of IL ID and then you’ll have backup. Better yet, get yourself a passport, then you’ll really be set with a real national ID. I have all 3 IDs and find it very convenient.
I would oppose changing the system because it will just give the legislature another thing to add stuff onto every year. I could see it now, OK, DUI will cause the license to be added, well what about reckless driving? What about going too fast in construction zones, what about… When you get down to it, most traffic infractions that get ticketed could, under the right circumstances, get someone killed, that’s why the police write tickets in the first place.
- Plutocrat03 - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:45 am:
Illinoi has done this for 40 years that I know of
Kind of whiny to complain about it, but it does make sense to codify the proper procedure. Always a bad idea to rely on a court’s intrepretation.
I know, lets get our legislature to do something about it…..Ooops they’re busy now
- BBpolNut - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:47 am:
The law should be changed. In today’s day and age the DL is needed as a form of ID for everything. In addition, the I agree technology exists now that will allow for the driver to be tracked if they don’t show up for court.
- Recently Affected - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:49 am:
Around the 4th of July I got a seat belt ticket (something that should be my own choice) and it was such a pain to have others buy my beer & cigs for me. Yes I know those are priveleges but I wasn’t willing to pay another $20 for a state ID. Sorry I didn’t have $55 cash on me to keep it. I shouldn’t have had to wait 2-3 wks to get it back either. I could see a DUI offense or wreckless driving, but CDL drivers can carry a ‘bond’ card that can allow them to keep their licenses if they get a minor traffic offense ticket. Why can’t we??
- South Sider - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:49 am:
I agree that the practice is impractical and they could end up misplacing your license on top of inconveniencing you for weeks.
However, for those of you citing flying as a reason to have your license, I suggest you get a passport and get used to using it for all air travel. By next year, you won’t be able to go anywhere outside of the US without it and eventually we’ll need it for all travel.
- Monty - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:51 am:
When the state of Illinois passes laws to prohibit the use of a driver’s license number by anyone except the Secretary of State’s office then the punishment of not having a state issued picture ID will fit the punishment. As of now, our driver’s licenses are used for everything from issuing credit to boarding an airplane. Our social security numbers are used in the same manner. The use of these numbers has nothing to do with the original reason for issuing them but can be used, as sanctioned by lawmakers, to make our lives miserable.
- Dollar USA - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 11:07 am:
Yes, and while we are changing laws please do away with the cost of producing two license plates for a car. Many state only produce a back plate.
- Arthur Andersen - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 11:08 am:
Excellent QOTD, Rich. I concur with all the other posters who wrote of the inefficiencies and inequities of the current system. Too much “officer discretion” is not always a good thing, no slight intended to the many great cops out there.
TO the poster who wrote-”no problem, get a passport.” Well, I did, and used it out at good old Abraham Lincoln Capitol Airport. (P.S. anyone think that the airport is about to suffer the same fate as Abe?)
The first guy (the boarding pass/ID checker) looked at me like I handed him a pile of dog crap. Finally got through without having to produce the DL, but it was dicey. My carry-on got plenty of attention, too.
I have also seen them refuse to take a military ID from soldiers and sailors TRAVELING IN UNIFORM!
Sorry, off topic.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 11:16 am:
AA, you’re right about the passport. I tried using my passport years ago to buy beer (after a traffic stop, so I had no license) and was laughed out of the liquor store.
Since then, my wife tried to use her foreign passport to buy something or another (no state ID because she had yet to get her Social Security card) and was flatly refused. I won’t go to that gas station now even though it’s the closest to my home.
I also complained loudly to the mayor’s office. “We get tons of tourists in Springfield, and they can’t buy alcohol with the only ID’s they have? Ridiculous!” I was told that foreign passports should be accepted, but I still won’t go back to that station ever again.
And “Recently Affected,” a AAA card is a bond card. Right now, your best bet is to join the auto club.
Bottom line: No matter what other folks might say here, there is really no substitute for a drivers license in the “real” world.
- moz104 - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 11:17 am:
Last October, I lost my wallet (including my driver’s license) only a few hours before I was supposed to pass through security at Midway Airport. Not only did they allow me to go through security (albeit with more weapon-sniffing machines than the ID’ed folks), but because I was sent to a different part of the security area, I’m fairly confident I got through security faster than if I had gone through the normal way. Not having an ID can be difficult, but not impossible. If you speed, you are breaking the law, and if you are breaking the law, you have to accept the potential consequences.
That being said, I don’t really see the point of having them confiscate your license as part of the punishment, so even though I’m not as adamant about it as other that have commented on it, I do think the practice should stop. Are you even allowed to drive away after the stop if they’ve taken your license?
- Rebel13 - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 11:19 am:
Ken in Aurora , I remember the staple holes in a license!
Now to all that say get a passport, do you carry it with you 24 hrs a day? Do you have time to go back home, or to a safety deposit box before your flight leaves? The point here is that there is no need to confiscate your DL (as stated, we are the only state to do it - everyone else must be wrong)since tracking and locating “citizens” is already heavily documented through computers.
There is no need for it to be confiscated.
- Chicago Cynic - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 11:53 am:
Jaded,
Maybe you should stop driving at or below the limit as you just sit in the passing lane…
- Speeding lawyer - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 11:56 am:
Actually, to be fair, the State Police often give a notice and envelope for paying the fine to avoid a court appearance and the driver keeps the license regardless.
Not all police agencies take the license.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 11:57 am:
CC, that was too funny.
- Chicago Cynic - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 12:12 pm:
It’s a pet peeve. There’s probably a minivan involved too.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 12:26 pm:
Seems like this would eliminate a lot of needless bureaucratic expense for taxpayers, as well as free up police officers from having to fill out one more form every day.
Booyah.
- Freezeup - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 12:42 pm:
Couple things here- I agree that times have changed and maybe it is time to reconsider this practice.
As usual though, the police get blamed for something they have little control over. The bonding procedures are set by the Illinois Supreme court as is mentioned in the article.
On a minor traffic offense, the drivers license can be posted in leiu of $75 cash bond, or an approved bond card such as a AAA card.
VERY IMPORTANT: The purpose of posting a bond is solely to encourage the offender to go to court or take care of the ticket! It is not to punish an accused offender…
Some officers are allowed to issue Individual Bonds, (I-Bonds), in which the person is released on his/her signiture. Most officers are strongly discouraged from doing this by department procedures as a high number of people released on their signature don’t go to court. The officer, prosecutor, clerk and judge then have to go through the process of obtaining an arrest warrant which then has to be entered in the computer by the sheriffs department. Then, often the offender gets arrested in another county and two counties have to house and transport the wanted offender of he can’t POST BOND!. It is a drain on an already strained system.
A recent development in the policing world, (particularly Chicago), is that officers may not tell traffic offenders that they may post the cash in lieu of the drivers license. That is because they do not want to handle cash bond. Cash has a way of disappearing. Cops, clerks, mail carriers, it passes through many hands on it’s way to the court. When cash disappears, it kicks off all kinds of bells and whistles, nobody wants any part of that… I do not agree with the practice of not telling the violator that he can post cash bond… It is happening though.
It is a good idea to have a separate I.D. card, for more reasons than just this. I recommend keeping it in a safe place away from your D/L.
Might not be a bad idea to get a bond card from your insurance company or a AAA card.
I have both.
- Freezeup - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 12:43 pm:
Rich- All sucking up aside, you sure dig up some good topics!
- Petersburg Pounder - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 12:47 pm:
Maybe CC should “obey” the law and travel the speed limit. Then the minivan wont be in the way.
The state ID card is just as good as a DL and everyone should have one. Driving is a priveledge not a right, so if you get the DL taken away for not driving correctly…too bad!
- Nate - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 12:48 pm:
Yeah, you guys aren’t thinking outside the box.
All we have to do to solve this is raise the speed limit to 90 throughout the state.
- Freezeup - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 12:51 pm:
Nate-
80 for big trucks.
- Thelma - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 12:51 pm:
What a bunch of whiners…upset about not being able to buy booze and cigs when you want because you were caught violating the law. Cops take you license for bond, to make sure you show up to court, not as a punishment. Seems to work pretty well sice it sounds like all of you showed up. Besides the AAA card, some gas cards have the option to be used as a bond card (just call the company and ask about the option). You can can also go to the clerks office and post a cash bond for the ticket (even before the court date) and get your license back if you really need it. It seems to me that requiring debit card readers or having the police handling cash would create more bureacuratic headaches than they would solve. What type of paperwork would be required to account for all that money? Doesn’t this create a situation that could result in, at least, the appearancy of bribery? Businesses get charged to use a debit or credit card, I’m assuming the state would too, do you want to pay for that? How about paying for all the new equiptment? I realize it’s a pain in the behind, but it’s really a fairly simple system as it is now, and it works.
- North of I-80 - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 1:33 pm:
We did it already in the 1990’s. All Compact states [IL, IA, MO, IN are, WI is NOT] have the option of “Promise to Comply”. You sign and mail back response [guilty, not guilty or court supervision + class] by the due date and all is good. If you don’t, your DL gets suspended. IL drivers blew it because SO many of them did not comply by the dates and SOS was so overwhelmed with all of the IL suspensions. SOS removed that option for IL drivers. Recall it lasted in IL for about 2 years.
- Freezeup - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 1:47 pm:
I don’t ever remember being able to “Promise To Comply” Illinois drivers, but you are right, it comes down to the fact that if you release them on their signature, they don’t show up…
- Recently Affected - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 1:52 pm:
Well, if the few bad apples spoiled it for the rest of us, then at least make the licenses available the next day or something. A piece of paper isn’t the same thing as a license, therefore it almost seems like I shouldn’t have been driving at all for 2 weeks…all because I wasn’t ‘protecting’ myself (not even a moving violation!!), which btw is no one else’s business but mine.
- Jaded - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 1:54 pm:
Chicago Cynic,
Thanks for the advice, however I never speed when I am driving because I don’t want to spill my beer.
- ILDem - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 1:58 pm:
Ever tried to rent a car out of state with only an IL ticket for a license and your passport for photo ID? Good luck!
This happened to me recently on a business trip back East. After enduring many long looks of shame - as if I were a drunk driver - and patiently explaining why I only had a paper ticket and that it was a LEGAL driver’s license three times, my reservation with Budget Rent A Car in Connecticut was refused. I tried several other agencies with the same result. The only way I could get a car was luckily finding a very helpful Hertz agent who knew IL law and was willing to rent to me.
BTW - the ticket was 11 mph over in a 55.
As an aside, my ticket is now currently “lost” in the system. It has never appeared on the website or in their database. So now, no one knows where my license is! I’ve hired an attorney to help sort it all out, and I’m more than willing to pay the ticket, but this experience is a bit ridiculous.
It is time to change this practice.
- Chicago Cynic - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 2:18 pm:
Touche’ Jaded!
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 2:21 pm:
Funny. Now, let’s get back to the question, OK? Thanks. :)
- Freezeup - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 2:23 pm:
If it is a “Supreme Court Rule”, how do you change it?
Lobby the court?
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 2:32 pm:
Change the law that the rule is based on.
- anonymous - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 2:40 pm:
The law/rule should be changed. A drivers license is an identification and without it if you don’t have an regular ID, the police are taking away your identification. If a police officer has discretion to take the license, under what circumstances will he or won’t he take someone’s license. That’s too much discretion that can lead to discriminatory practices.
If police officers take drivers licenses in actually, a person can’t drive without it; there is no such thing as driving on a ticket.
- Anon - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 2:40 pm:
Most downstate police officers do not take your license. They give you a ticket and envelope. They even tell you a court date in case you want to fight it.
- Freezeup - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 2:50 pm:
625 ILCS 5/6-306.3 appears to be that law.
- Jaded - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 3:05 pm:
If you read the rule Supreme Court (rule 501 and 526), the license is just one option. You can also give $75 cash (which includes traveler’s checks and major credit card drafts), or a bail bond certificate. So if you are worried about it, carry cash, or travelers checks so you can give the exact amount of $55 (seat belt) $75 (speeding) $95 (20-29 over the limit), or $105 (30-39 over).
I don’t think it is unreasonable for the state to require one of those things for bail when you violate a law. So I guess my answer to the question is that the state does allow a person to keep their license if they have one of the other options. If they don’t then I guess that is their fault, and the state should get some assurance that you are going to pay your fine, or show up in court.
- Captain America - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 3:16 pm:
Can 49 other states be wrong? The Illinois practice of confiscating a license for routine traffic offenses seems to be an anachronism. Change the law/rule. There seem to be other reasonable means to enforce sanctions against scofflaws.
- Squideshi - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 3:37 pm:
Yes. State law should be changed to allow people to keep their licenses after a non-DUI traffic stop.
Tickets are not always accepted as a substitute for state issued ID, and even FOID and Social Security cards are not often accepted. I haven’t received a ticket since the new style licenses have been issued; but I wouldn’t doubt it if they have found some way to put the equivalent of staple holes in the new plastic cards too!
- Freezeup - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 3:45 pm:
Can 49 other states be wrong? Different procedure, neither right or wrong, just different.
In some of those states if you don’t post bond you can be jailed for a traffic offense. Is that right or wrong?
As long as there is a “big hammer” encouraging people to go to court, I don’t care what it is.
Asking them nicely to please go to court doesn’t work and apparently for most people their signature and their word as a promise doesn’t mean anything.
These systems are not set up to be convenient for the traffic violator but you do have more than one option.
- Squideshi - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 3:50 pm:
“If it is a ‘Supreme Court Rule’, how do you change it?”
You file a “petition for rulemaking” with the Supreme Court, asking them to change the rule. This is covered in Supreme Court Rule 3. You’ll also want to take a look at Article 5 of the Illinois Administrative Procedure Act. (5 ILCS 100/1 et al.)
- Recently Affected - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 3:52 pm:
Squideshi - when I just got mine back for the seat belt ticket, it was stapled & of course, now has holes in it…
- I'm Anonymous - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 3:53 pm:
WAIT! I thought these cops always gave each other breaks and covered for each other! What about the blue code of silence and all!
- North of I-80 - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 4:18 pm:
Why change it? The DL in your possession isn’t yours anyhow… it’s property of IL SOS. You’re just renting it [and license plates]. SOS can cancel, suspend, issue or confiscate the DL, which represents your privilege to drive, given to you by SOS. It is only a convenience that you buy alcohol or cigarettes or rent a car with it; YOUR convenience and nothing owed to you by IL SOS. The answer is to carry cash, a bond card and get a state ID card…. as well as buckle up and try to not get a ticket. And yes, you can drive while the DL circulates through the system [unless you’re suspended, revoked or cancelled]… just keep a copy of the citation on you when you drive….
- way northsider - Wednesday, Aug 1, 07 @ 10:40 pm:
Yes, you should be allowed to keep it. The DL is a permit to drive. If you have been stopped for something minor, you are still allowed to drive and therefore you should be able to retain your permit to do so.
While on this topic, I suggest you ask whether people think it is right and fair that a Driers License has become a de facto ID for all kinds of unrelated matters. We effectively have a back door national ID.